Ideal FRC Game

[Donut]

Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor

Personally I would like an endgame like 2004 in the sense that all robots cannot possibly do the endgame and an alliance can move to deny the opposing alliance of the endgame.

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

You could have all four robots hang in 2004, it was just pretty crowded. I agree though, it would be fun for the crowd to see the return of a "fighting" end game.

My ideal game would definitely include some sort of direct competition for the end game between the alliances, but I'd be satisfied with any well made end game given most of the games I've seen. Since 2004 only 2007 (lifting) and 2012 (balancing) have been exciting and worth a significant amount of points; 2011 was too fast to be exciting, 2009 was difficult and rarely utilized, and all other years were worth too little of points to matter.

Other features of a good game are easy to obtain game pieces, an autonomous period that provides an advantage/bonus to the winner of it (not just "move or die" ala 2009), and a good point balance between scoring methods. Games that can be explained in less than 30 seconds are a plus.

[dag0620]

Stacking! I would absolutely love some concept of stacking tote bins again!

Also I want to diddo those who want a spectator friendly game that's easy to explain. As the main man for Public Relations, games such as 2008, 2010, and 2012, make my job so much easier.

[2348humanplayer]

A game where Human Players are used more often to score, like '98 or '99.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by cmrnpizzo14

I was not on an FRC team in '05, were tetras easy to make out of PVC or something? And I think the KOP bins might be tough with the lids. Maybe something similar to FTC where it is an open-top bin that you load pieces into?

Games with readily accessible game peices since 2003, to the best of my knowledge.

03-totes
05-PVC tetras
10-soccer balls

Were the 04 dodge balls accessible?

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Games with readily accessible game peices since 2003, to the best of my knowledge.

03-totes
05-PVC tetras
10-soccer balls

Were the 04 dodge balls accessible?

The trouble isn't that soccer balls or playground balls aren't available, it's that those soccer balls or playground balls are hard to source. (People cared less in 2002, because the soccer balls frankly didn't matter much. 2010 was much different.)

Unless supply is an intentional game constraint (very bad idea), FIRST needs to ensure that there is a supply chain available for the actual game pieces, or demonstrate (with supporting analysis) that the actual game pieces differ insignificantly from alternatives more widely available.

For example, the tetras were a good idea in principle, except that the connectors were not widely available. FIRST probably should have used sheet polycarbonate connectors of a slightly different configuration (less stress concentration in the corners) instead of the moulded plastic ones. That would have solved production issues (any laser, waterjet or CNC router shop could make them, as could many teams), and would probably have been cheaper to mass-produce for the game. That's perhaps only obvious in hindsight, but now that they've had the experience, hopefully they're taking it to heart.<sup>1

1</sup> Maybe they did consider and reject these for some reason. It's entirely possible that these were somehow unacceptable as well.

[JJackson]

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

FIRST probably should have used sheet polycarbonate connectors of a slightly different configuration instead of the moulded plastic ones. That would have solved production issues (any laser, waterjet or CNC router shop could make them, as could many teams), and would probably have been cheaper to mass-produce for the game.

We actually made our own connectors for the tetras, out of pvc ends and Lexan (cut with a bandsaw). I'm not sure if FIRST said to do this or I we just did it, but we didn't require any thing we couldn't get from our local hardware store

[Justin Montois]

I feel like I posted something like this on here somewhere..but

I want a game with an Auto Mode that give you a significant bonus for completing, unlike 2009, 2010. Past two years have been perfect.

A teleop mode that presents teams with a wide variety of strategies and rules that don't limit creativity

And lastly, an end game that encourages strong Cooperation among the alliance, not just "Get robots behind a line"

We'll know in just a few days!

Originally Posted by Justin Montois

And lastly, an end game that encourages strong Cooperation among the alliance, not just "Get robots behind a line"

I want to echo this. It seemed this year's endgame, while fine in eliminations, was focused more upon cooperating with the opposing alliance during the qualifying rounds, and previous years were usually focused on one robot acting on itself to complete a task. I'd like to see an endgame that involves teamwork and strategy with your own alliance to complete a group task.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Justin Montois

I want a game with an Auto Mode that give you a significant bonus for completing, unlike 2009, 2010. Past two years have been perfect.

Why do you think they were undervalued? A bad (ie someone didn't move) autonomous in 2009 was basically a death sentence. In 2010 a typical alliance would score about 3 pts in the entire match, so a free shot on goal was actually a pretty big deal.

If anything I think hybrid in 2012 was if anything over-valued, more basket points were scored in hybrid than in teleop! Should 15 seconds be more important than 2 minutes?

Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor

Personally I would like an endgame like 2004 in the sense that all robots cannot possibly do the endgame and an alliance can move to deny the opposing alliance of the endgame.

You could have all four robots hang in 2004, it was just pretty crowded. I agree though, it would be fun for the crowd to see the return of a "fighting" end game.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Justin Montois

I feel like I posted something like this on here somewhere..but

I want a game with an Auto Mode that give you a significant bonus for completing, unlike 2009, 2010. Past two years have been perfect.
...snip!

I think you highly underestimated the importance of Auto Mode in 2010 and 2009. While 2009, you just needed to move (spinning worked well), if you didn't you were loaded up.

In 2010, clearing your zone, and sending balls to your home zone was huge. Getting those 3 balls into your home zone was a a potential 6 point swing.

[sebflippers]

Water game with minibots. The normal robot is on the field, but dumps a minibot into a small tank to push a button or something.

[Nemo]

My wishes for good games:

No Kinect please.

Autonomous that does not require vision targets to be good. I don't think it was necessary to use the camera in any of the games I've been involve in (2009 on). It seems like getting a camera to work in FRC is less about developing the code to process images and determine robot moves and more about the struggle to calibrate for the event lighting and figuring out how to get an image back without lagging your cRio. Unless those issues get easier, I will remain wary of cameras.

Tough Strategic Tradeoffs - I don't want it to constantly be obvious what we should be trying to do next like it generally was in 2011. In 2010 and 2012, you had to make tough choices about where to be and what to do - that was cool.

Flat field. But if the field has topography, design it with the idea that some teams aren't going to be able to make it over the obstacles, so there should still be a mostly flat path available (possibly less conveniently located or more crowded) from one end of the field to the other.

Seeding system that never rewards you for scoring less or intentionally scoring for the opponent.

Absence of penalties that constantly require difficult judgments by the referees.

Easy field to build.

My #1 wish: a game that can be practiced in a room with a 9 foot ceiling!

[stundt1]

In my ideal game

I would not like:
Minibots
Kinect
anything having to do with 2009

I would like:
A game like 2004
A game which involves hanging
Coopertition like balancing
Scoring in the center of the field

[Twest3259]

My Ideal game would be a mix of king of the hill (with the hill in the centre much like stackattack but steeper) mixed with capture some sort of game piece and get it back to your side of the field. no safe zones on the field. Just really let the Defensive strategies be a big part of it. also a tunnel on each side that goes through the hill. for quick bring backs but the loss of visibility of your bot. and the end game would be to drive onto the hill and stack your alliance partners ontop of you. for extra points.

[electrostatics1]

I think this year they will bring back suspending your robot in air,as in First Frenzy and Breakaway.