2013 KB on steriods

[1493kd]

So I think I have convienced my team that we need to go with the Kitbot on steriods. From what I have seen/heard this years kit bot will have belts instead of chain drive. I have no experience with belt drive and was wondering how this will change the setup of the KB on steriods. Does anyone have any suggestions to help us with this. Any help will be appreciated.

[Phyrxes]

"If your team decides to receive the 2013 KOP Drive System, you will receive an AndyMark C-Base chassis system similar to the last few years. It will again be a six wheel drive robot, with similar wheels to 2012, and with enough material to drive all six wheels. The 2013 gearbox is a ToughBox Mini with 10.71:1 reduction. The estimated final drive speed is about 10 feet per second."

The Toughbox Mini also accepts 2 CIMs so if you elect to drive each side 2 CIMS it will be very similar to the kitbot on steroids from previous years, just theoretically more efficient and lighter.

[Coach Norm]

Originally Posted by Phyrxes

"If your team decides to receive the 2013 KOP Drive System, you will receive an AndyMark C-Base chassis system similar to the last few years. It will again be a six wheel drive robot, with similar wheels to 2012, and with enough material to drive all six wheels. The 2013 gearbox is a ToughBox Mini with 10.71:1 reduction. The estimated final drive speed is about 10 feet per second."

The Toughbox Mini also accepts 2 CIMs so if you elect to drive each side 2 CIMS it will be very similar to the kitbot on steroids from previous years, just theoretically more efficient and lighter.

EDIT: FOund the link to the information you are referencing above.


How do you know for sure that the KOP will be the same as last year in regards to the 2013 KOP Drive System?

Was this published already?

Thanks,

Norman

[DampRobot]

The main advantage of the KBoS in my mind are the AM shifters and the extra strength from the plywood. The main unknown at this point, which could determine the possibility of running a KBoS system, is the bore of the new pulleys. The output shaft on the AM shifter is 1/2" keyed, and as much as I hope that the new pulleys will be hex, this would prevent them from going in a AM shifter. I guess we'll all find out when the Kit Bot is released tomorrow.

Originally Posted by DampRobot

The main advantage of the KBoS in my mind are the AM shifters and the extra strength from the plywood. The main unknown at this point, which could determine the possibility of running a KBoS system, is the bore of the new pulleys. The output shaft on the AM shifter is 1/2" keyed, and as much as I hope that the new pulleys will be hex, this would prevent them from going in a AM shifter. I guess we'll all find out when the Kit Bot is released tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure the KBoS uses the kit CIMple Boxes, and where did you hear about the Kitbot being released tomorrow?

[Ankit S.]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

I'm pretty sure the KBoS uses the kit CIMple Boxes

I think they switched to Nano Toughboxes this year.

[Mark McLeod]

The 2013 gearbox is a ToughBox Mini with 10.71:1 reduction.
From post #2

[Siri]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

I'm pretty sure the KBoS uses the kit CIMple Boxes, and where did you hear about the Kitbot being released tomorrow?

Where you'd expect, actually. "AndyMark Drive Base Kit...Checklist (coming 1/2/13)" [so actually today, now]. Rather odd, but there. Let's see if it happens.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by Siri

Where you'd expect, actually. "AndyMark Drive Base Kit...Checklist (coming 1/2/13)" [so actually today, now]. Rather odd, but there. Let's see if it happens.

I agree today "should" be the date the Checklist is available, BUT, has anyone actually seen it yet?
I checked the FIRST 2013 KOP site, but nothing is there yet. And nothing on AndyMark yet either.

[jspatz1]

Ok, I will volunteer the collective advice on behalf of the all the FRC participants and mentors who are face-palming while reading this post. If you have genuinely "decided" or "convinced your team" what drive chassis you will use this year before even seeing the game, your team may want to fundementally rethink your approach to this activity.

[1493kd]

Originally Posted by jspatz1

Ok, I will volunteer the collective advice on behalf of the all the FRC participants and mentors who are face-palming while reading this post. If you have genuinely "decided" or "convinced your team" what drive chassis you will use this year before even seeing the game, your team may want to fundementally rethink your approach to this activity.

Why is this so? We have had sub par results in our 10 years of doing it the way that we have. We dont have enough resources to devote time to custom things and would be better served using the provided frame. The rest of the team felt that this would be a good approach. I am reaching out to the chiefdelphi community asking for advice. Before I face palm in frustration could you please explain to me how my fundementals need to be rethought?

[bardd]

Originally Posted by 1493kd

Why is this so? We have had sub par results in our 10 years of doing it the way that we have. We dont have enough resources to devote time to custom things and would be better served using the provided frame. The rest of the team felt that this would be a good approach. I am reaching out to the chiefdelphi community asking for advice. Before I face palm in frustration could you please explain to me how my fundementals need to be rethought?

I believe he's referring to the fact you make design decisions before kickoff, not criticising the decision itself.

Originally Posted by 1493kd

Why is this so? We have had sub par results in our 10 years of doing it the way that we have. We dont have enough resources to devote time to custom things and would be better served using the provided frame. The rest of the team felt that this would be a good approach. I am reaching out to the chiefdelphi community asking for advice. Before I face palm in frustration could you please explain to me how my fundementals need to be rethought?

What Jeff is trying to say is you can't say you are doing a specific design for sure without even knowing what the game is. My favorite example of this is 2009, the game with regulation wheels and a low-friction playing field. If your team decided that you'd use 4" wheels and the kitbot for the 2009 season without knowing what the game was, come kickoff day you'd be disappointed to find that due to rules, restrictions, and the way the game was played, that the chassis you decided on using either isn't allowed, or isn't the best solution to the game.

He isn't saying that you shouldn't decide to use the kitbot and go custom. He's saying that you shouldn't make any decisions before you've seen the game and decided your strategy. This year we wanted a long robot (kitbot on steroids, to be exact) before seeing Rebound Rumble. After seeing it, we decided a wide robot would be advantageous for us due to more room on the bridge and a wider pickup area.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by 1493kd

Why is this so? .... Before I face palm in frustration could you please explain to me how my fundementals need to be rethought?

I believe his intent was to suggest not placing all your eggs in one basket quite yet.
Until we really know what the game is, it would be very prudent to NOT commit to any design specifics just yet.

As an example:
If you had decided and committed to make a high torque, multi-speed drive train before kickoff in 2009, when Lunacy was introduced, you would find you had shot yourselves in the proverbial feet.

The game can dictate different aspects of a drive-train.

Now, based on what we KNOW is included in the KOP this year, the assumptions on the needs of the drive-train for 2013 can be narrowed down quite a bit.
4" high grip wheels, ToughBox Mini transmissions with 10.7:1 reduction, belt drive up to 6 wheels, from the KOP. Based on those facts, you should be able to get fairly close to a final decision without even seeing what the game is.

But, nothing should be set in stone just yet.

[alb4h]

[quote=billbo911;1206564] .....snip....

Now, based on what we KNOW is included in the KOP this year, the assumptions on the needs of the drive-train for 2013 can be narrowed down quite a bit.
4" high grip wheels, ToughBox Mini transmissions with 10.7:1 reduction, belt drive up to 6 wheels, from the KOP. Based on those facts, you should be able to get fairly close to a final decision without even seeing what the game is.

....

Where did you get this info? How do you know what's in the KOP already?
Ann