Climbing Rules

[RobotRaider]

I'd like to open the discussion about the hanging rules.

My question is: If you are to attach to the 30" bar in such a way that your robot curls up above the horizontal plain to be completely in the Level 2 (20 points) but a small part of the "claw" attached to the 30" bar is thus below the horizontal plain; does this count as 20 points?

I guess the question becomes, how lenient are the rules, and where does this horizontal plain get extended from? The bottom of the metal tube? The top? The middle?

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by RobotRaider

I guess the question becomes, how lenient are the rules, and where does this horizontal plain get extended from? The bottom of the metal tube? The top? The middle?

Check out the diagram that defines where the planes are (3.2.4.2). The planes are just above the bars, so the 30" bar is in Level 1, the 60" bar is in Level 2, and the 90" bar is in Level 3.

[XXShadowXX]

If your off the ground your considered level 1, 10 points.

If all of your robot completely above the the first bar, your in level 2 zone, for 20 points.

If all of your robot is completely above the second level your in level 3 zone, for 30 points.

If any of your robot is below the plane is question it seems your be in a lower zone from the rule book, so I believe you'll have to attach to at least the 90 inch bar to be in zone 3. If you are attached to the second bar and curl over, your attachment mechanism will likely be considered in zone 2 therefore your robot.

[CalTran]

3.2.4.2 CLIMB Points

Points are awarded for the highest Level achieved for every ALLIANCE ROBOT that CLIMBS its PYRAMID. The Level to which a ROBOT has CLIMBED is determined by the lowest point of the ROBOT (in relation to the FIELD).

As taken from Secton 3 - The Game

If your claw is still below the level, then the lowest part of your robot is the bottom of that claw. I think, as evidenced of the 210 End Game, it will be a straight above the plane or below the plane.

[LMD3130]

We have come to a stumble with the rule listed in section 3.2.4.2-B. It states that the robot can not be in any more than 2 sections at once. Assuming your robot is on the ground you are in zone 0, if you are going for the cross-bar above in zone 1 you will of course be in zone 1, and once you are above the post you may be in zone 3. The reason this is unknown is due to the small area above the cross-bar that remains to be in the zone, this length above the bar is not described in the rules making us question the legality of a mechanism that grabs or latches to one of these bars because you may cross the level with this system.

[Dinoyan]

Maybe we should make like a robot arm to climb

[Racer26]

I suspect some of the first Q&A questions will be related to the no more than 2 sections climbing rule, and how it interacts with the floor.

My suspicion is that we'll see a Team Update that allows you to be in Layer 0, 1, AND 2, but afterward only 1 and 2 or 2 and 3.

[ddesportes]

We have the same conundrum with climbing through level 2. If the robot grips the bar at the top of level 2, presumably part of the gripper is over top of the bar and, therefore, in Level 3. If at the same time the robot still has some attachment to the bar at the top of Level 1, the robot would be in three levels at once. I sincerely hope this is not the intent of the rules.

[Redo91]

[G22] Robots must contact the pyramid in
A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and
B. no more than two (2) Levels simultaneously.

Emphasis mine.

This rule reads a little funny at first, but when you take it for exactly what it says, I think it becomes clear. There is nothing about how many zones the robot can occupy, but how many different zones the robot may contact. This is why the planes for the zones are above the horizontal members.

Let's say you are going to score on the second level (20 points). Your first step, following G22, would be to move from level 0 (the ground) to level 1(fully supported by the section of the pyramid in zone 1). You are now free to move on from the section of the pyramid in zone 1 to the section in zone 2.

I hope this is a helpful explanation.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Redo91

Emphasis mine.

This rule reads a little funny at first, but when you take it for exactly what it says, I think it becomes clear. There is nothing about how many zones the robot can occupy, but how many different zones the robot may contact. This is why the planes for the zones are above the horizontal members.

Let's say you are going to score on the second level (20 points). Your first step, following G22, would be to move from level 0 (the ground) to level 1(fully supported by the section of the pyramid in zone 1). You are now free to move on from the section of the pyramid in zone 1 to the section in zone 2.

I hope this is a helpful explanation.

So...does this make scaling corners as difficult as I think it does?

[Redo91]

Originally Posted by Siri

So...does this make scaling corners as difficult as I think it does?

Only as difficult as you design it to be.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Redo91

Only as difficult as you design it to be.

Sorry, I meant legally. If the issue is contacting pipes within each zone (agreed), is it legal* for a robot to grasp the corner joint of the 30" pipe and of the 60" pipe? (Essentially analogous to your original explanation, which I agree with, but brought next to objects that run the full heights of the zones, obfuscating "occupy".) This is not to say that climbing slanted pipes would be harder--a la 2010 vertical climbers--but rather to investigate the legal issues surrounding working at corner joints.


*Perhaps I should say "wise" rather than "legal". Anyone close enough to brush against the wrong side of a slanted pipe seems to be in a precarious position technical position--and making it very tough on the refs! I'd loathe to see those DS lights turn yellow...


EDIT: or, you know, what Don said. [part 2]
@Don for part 1: I think he's referring back to this concept of climbing early and then coming down to score more.

[Redo91]

I think wise is the word you are looking for. There is not much room to grab onto a corner. It would probably be a judgement call by the referee observing the robot.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Siri

So...does this make scaling corners as difficult as I think it does?

I think the welds at the corners are what make corner-scaling difficult.


I keep thinking of climbing a ladder. A normal person would put a foot on one rung, a hand on the next, before starting the climb-this would not be a legal climb (three levels are contacted).
Taking it a step further - let's say the ladderclimber is standing on the first rung and tries to ascend to the second. This person is not allowed to touch the third rung for stability - (s)he must fully release from the first rung before contacting the second.
This with the understanding that each level begins with the horizontal plane tangential to the top of the rung - I can't think of how to consistently and explicitly contact a round horizontal member at only one point, and that one point exactly at the vertical top. But, this game is only 27 hours old, clarity may come.
The 1/9 opening time for Q&A feels like a lifetime away. Especially since the response time is historically such a wild card.

[Ekcrbe]

Originally Posted by Taylor

I keep thinking of climbing a ladder. A normal person would put a foot on one rung, a hand on the next, before starting the climb-this would not be a legal climb (three levels are contacted).
Taking it a step further - let's say the ladderclimber is standing on the first rung and tries to ascend to the second. This person is not allowed to touch the third rung for stability - (s)he must fully release from the first rung before contacting the second.

Not the first rung, just the ground.
The first and second rung are consecutive levels.