Assisting a Climb

[kpbot]

In the video, it seemed a robot helped an alliance partner climb the pyramid. But by this rule, I'm guessing that is not allowed?

G33 A ROBOT may only be supported (fully or partially) by another ROBOT if one of the ROBOTS is in contact with a PYRAMID. Violation: If extended, strategic, or repeated, TECHNICAL FOUL.

(emphasis mine)

Thoughts?

[Taylor]

In the animation, Dozer was in contact with the pyramid.

[GaryVoshol]

The video is not official; the rules are.

That said, the part you quoted gave an exception - if one of the robots is in contact with the pyramid.

[aldaeron]

Like many others I am trying to guess at the intent of G33.

One thought is that you can have 1 alliance member drive up and touch the pyramid and a second get off the ground by driving on top of them and touching the pyramid (yay - 10 points!)

A second and IMO more interesting thought is whether you can piggy back another alliance member on top of your robot and carry both up at once (we can use 10 bajillion motors so it is feasible). The concern is whether or not the carried robot has to touch the pyramid on its way up. As the rules are written now, it appears the carried robot would have to touch the pyramid on its way up.

My guess is that you cannot get to the top and lower something down to hoist up an alliance mate.

Curious on your thoughts! I think it would be cool if they allowed carrying

-matto-

[Johnbot]

Originally Posted by aldaeron

Like many others I am trying to guess at the intent of G33.

One thought is that you can have 1 alliance member drive up and touch the pyramid and a second get off the ground by driving on top of them and touching the pyramid (yay - 10 points!)

A second and IMO more interesting thought is whether you can piggy back another alliance member on top of your robot and carry both up at once (we can use 10 bajillion motors so it is feasible). The concern is whether or not the carried robot has to touch the pyramid on its way up. As the rules are written now, it appears the carried robot would have to touch the pyramid on its way up.

My guess is that you cannot get to the top and lower something down to hoist up an alliance mate.

Curious on your thoughts! I think it would be cool if they allowed carrying

-matto-

If I understood the rules correctly, the robot you carry up would have to touch each rung, as it must sequentially be in each zone, and you are only in a zone if you are touching part of the pyramid in said zone.
Edit: If you lower something down, then your robot is technically getting taller, and you could only lower it 84? inches from the top of your robot.

[Redo91]

I think the clarification that needs to be made is whether you need to be in contact with the pyramid or not for it to be considered a climb. If it is clarified in the manual already, could someone point me to it's location?

[ToddF]

If the floor under the pyramid counts as part of the pyramid (zone 0) when climbing, wouldn't that also imply that it counts as part of the pyramid when supporting another robot?

Or is it more quantum, being both part of the pyramid (for climbing) and not part of the pyramid (for supporting)?

Maybe it's Schrödinger's floor.

[ptkunapuli478]

Originally Posted by ToddF

If the floor under the pyramid counts as part of the pyramid (zone 0) when climbing, wouldn't that also imply that it counts as part of the pyramid when supporting another robot?

Or is it more quantum, being both part of the pyramid (for climbing) and not part of the pyramid (for supporting)?

Maybe it's Schrödinger's floor.

I don't believe that the floor is considered part of the pyramid in regards to climbing because there are no real field structures on level 0. Our team's understanding of the rules is that a robot (say, robot A), that is fully supported by the pyramid (i.e. hanging on its own), can help support another robot (robot B), which is being partially supported by Robot A.

In terms of the idea of carrying another robot up the pyramid, i think it would still be rendered an illegal climb because that robot is not being directly supported by the pyramid. Even if it were, I predict that refs would call that illegal because the second robot is indirectly in contact with non sequential rungs on the pyramid.

[vikesrock777]

Originally Posted by ptkunapuli478

I don't believe that the floor is considered part of the pyramid in regards to climbing because there are no real field structures on level 0. Our team's understanding of the rules is that a robot (say, robot A), that is fully supported by the pyramid (i.e. hanging on its own), can help support another robot (robot B), which is being partially supported by Robot A.

I feel that you have to regard the floor as part of the pyramid. If it's not part of the pyramid, than it becomes hard(impossible?) to contact the pyramid at level 0 for the sake of a legal climb by the rule in 3.2.4.2

A ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID in
A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and
B. no more than two (2) Levels simultaneously.

Originally Posted by ptkunapuli478

In terms of the idea of carrying another robot up the pyramid, i think it would still be rendered an illegal climb because that robot is not being directly supported by the pyramid.

I don't see a rule dictating a necessity to be supported by the pyramid to be considered for a scored hang, though I may be missing it.

Originally Posted by ptkunapuli478

Even if it were, I predict that refs would call that illegal because the second robot is indirectly in contact with non sequential rungs on the pyramid.

When it comes to lifting a robot up with you, I don't think it would violate the non-sequential rungs rule by indirectly being in contact with another robot touching a higher rung. I would think this contact wouldn't be transitive, but I admittedly have no rule I can find backing up this statement.