Climbing Mechanism Ideas

[mrnoble]

I'm worried. I see a lot of posts from folks who are misinterpreting the rules, and I'm worried that we'll see a host of unusable robots at the regionals. Yes, there is need for clarification from QA about whether the airspace directly above the tops of each rung constitutes a new zone, but I think the clear intention of the rules is that we find a solution that only allows us to touch (or exist in) two zones at a time. We therefore can't slide up the rungs, or use a hooked conveyor belt, or ski up them. Clearly, it would be much easier if you could balance on two rungs as you reach for a third, but you can't. you will have to freely swing from each rung as you try grasp the next one up.

Not trying to be a party pooper. I really do want to see some cool solutions, but I have been to enough events to have seen the heartbreak of teams who misread the rules, and have to play defense as a fallback, or completely rebuild on game day.

[SteveGPage]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

I'm worried. I see a lot of posts from folks who are misinterpreting the rules, and I'm worried that we'll see a host of unusable robots at the regionals. Yes, there is need for clarification from QA about whether the airspace directly above the tops of each rung constitutes a new zone, but I think the clear intention of the rules is that we find a solution that only allows us to touch (or exist in) two zones at a time. We therefore can't slide up the rungs, or use a hooked conveyor belt, or ski up them. Clearly, it would be much easier if you could balance on two rungs as you reach for a third, but you can't. you will have to freely swing from each rung as you try grasp the next one up.

Not trying to be a party pooper. I really do want to see some cool solutions, but I have been to enough events to have seen the heartbreak of teams who misread the rules, and have to play defense as a fallback, or completely rebuild on game day.

According to the manual:

A ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID in
A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and
B. no more than two (2) Levels simultaneously.

If a CLIMB is considered unacceptable (e.g. a ROBOT has touched non-adjacent Levels or more than two (2) Levels at a time), a Referee will indicate a rejected CLIMB by turning the offending ROBOT’S PLAYER STATION LED strings yellow. The ROBOT will be ineligible for CLIMB points unless and until it begins a new CLIMB from the floor, Level 0.

... emphasis mine ...

I agree there needs to be clarification from QA, but I see nothing that indicates the "air" in a level is "contacting" or "touching" the pyramid. So I'm not clear how such posts are "misintrepreting" the rules. Please show the rule or part of the manual that suggests your intrepretation.

Thanks!

Steve

[Siri]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

I'm worried. I see a lot of posts from folks who are misinterpreting the rules, and I'm worried that we'll see a host of unusable robots at the regionals. Yes, there is need for clarification from QA about whether the airspace directly above the tops of each rung constitutes a new zone, but I think the clear intention of the rules is that we find a solution that only allows us to touch (or exist in) two zones at a time. We therefore can't slide up the rungs, or use a hooked conveyor belt, or ski up them. Clearly, it would be much easier if you could balance on two rungs as you reach for a third, but you can't. you will have to freely swing from each rung as you try grasp the next one up.

Not trying to be a party pooper. I really do want to see some cool solutions, but I have been to enough events to have seen the heartbreak of teams who misread the rules, and have to play defense as a fallback, or completely rebuild on game day.

Touch and "exist in" are not synonyms. The sequential & simultaneous contact rules are about just that (contact). Whether the airspace above the rung constitutes the next level (which it does) is immaterial for this purpose, because contact is based on the steel, not the air. Skiing, driving, hooking, etc are only illegal if they contact the steel in the next level before losing contact with n-2. I don't see anything in these posts that indicated teams don't understand this?

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by Siri

Touch and "exist in" are not synonyms. The sequential & simultaneous contact rules are about just that (contact). Whether the airspace above the rung constitutes the next level (which it does) is immaterial for this purpose, because contact is based on the steel, not the air. Skiing, driving, hooking, etc are only illegal if they contact the steel in the next level before losing contact with n-2. I don't see anything in these posts that indicated teams don't understand this?

As I understand it, in order to ski up the rungs you must be supported by rungs 1 and 2, touch rung 3 and release rung 1, in that order. That is my concern; in order to meet the requirements of the rules, you must NOT touch rung 1 when you begin touching rung 3. That leaves you balancing on only rung 2. I don't see how that would work, but maybe I'm missing something.

[mrnoble]

I'm also taking into account that in order to score 10, 20 or 30 points, the robot must exist entirely above the plane that defines each zone. I don't think (from my reading) that a robot could, for instance, grab the first bar, then the second, release the first, grab the third, release the second, and be hanging with the wheels below the plane of first (or second) bar, and still get 30 points, regardless of whether the robot is touching any but the third bar.

[Donut]

Originally Posted by jason701802

What if you lift them up such that they never touch anything other than level 0?

Then the robot would not have performed a proper CLIMB, since it has not made contact with the pyramid. This results in no score.

[ewrado]

this is cool
http://youtu.be/kqGOwqWBV-E

[AhAhPatel]

what do you mean by bike peddler design?

[DampRobot]

Any teams had any luck prototyping "minibot climber" types? I'm talking about something that rides up the diagonals of the pyramids on wheels, hanging on somehow.

[Adam.garcia]

Originally Posted by DampRobot

Any teams had any luck prototyping "minibot climber" types? I'm talking about something that rides up the diagonals of the pyramids on wheels, hanging on somehow.

For this, I've been thinking of having an articulated 1717 2010-esque lifter that will be able to traverse the corners. Have a latching system on the top, and drive wheels at the bottom. By any chance, does anybody have close up pics of their latching mechanism from that year?

I see that they posted pics of their bot here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35361
But the only pic that is broken is the one for the latching.

[Marc S.]

Originally Posted by Adam.garcia

For this, I've been thinking of having an articulated 1717 2010-esque lifter that will be able to traverse the corners. Have a latching system on the top, and drive wheels at the bottom. By any chance, does anybody have close up pics of their latching mechanism from that year?

I see that they posted pics of their bot here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35361
But the only pic that is broken is the one for the latching.

1717 Used a gas spring to lift themselves up. This was an excellent idea because even if they grabbed the tower at the last second, the robot would still go up the tower even after the robot was disabled. That mechanism wouldn't work this year as it reacted against the top surface of the tunnel.

[Gir_450]

Ok, our team was thinking of an extending hook that would grab the 3rd rung and winch us up as we drove up the side of the pyramid and stopped at possibly the 20 point zone. Would this be against the rule that says we would need to climb up sequentially?

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Gir_450

Ok, our team was thinking of an extending hook that would grab the 3rd rung and winch us up as we drove up the side of the pyramid and stopped at possibly the 20 point zone. Would this be against the rule that says we would need to climb up sequentially?

Yes. If you grab the 3rd rung while on the floor, you are not climbing sequentially (because the floor is Level 0).

[Rishabhgadi]

Originally Posted by DampRobot

Any teams had any luck prototyping "minibot climber" types? I'm talking about something that rides up the diagonals of the pyramids on wheels, hanging on somehow.

That was my initial idea, but you would not reach past the first level because of the notches on the side which stick out about an inch.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Rishabhgadi

That was my initial idea, but you would not reach past the first level because of the notches on the side which stick out about an inch.

Specifically, the knuckle sticks out quite far on the front, and the gusset extends in the back of the pole, too.