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#1
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
Back in 2001 I participated in a spinoff of FIRST called "Canada First" (As our FIRST had yet to come to Canada). The competition that year involved firing squash balls at targets. Lasers were prohibited so we used a 35W household halogen 12V pot light in a cardboard tube with a magnifying glass mounted inside the tube at the appropriate focal length to project a perfect "spot" on the targets. We inserted a piece of aluminum with a + slot machined in it and the result was a perfect crisp projection of a crosshairs on the targets. It worked magnificently well.
This being said, that competition, all the drivers were oriented to face the same direction and the targets were opaque so nobody was exposed to any aiming lights. I must say that if I felt it was impeding my drive team's ability to compete I would not have any bad feelings about launching a complaint against the offending device. FIRST has given you some incredible tools at your disposal (CRIO and Axis Camera). You should be endeavoring to use them and learn as much about the technology as possible. |
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#2
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
Yeah, but the driver will have a camera mounted on the robot, so when the light reflects back on the robot, the camera will catch it and the driver can shoot, especially if the light is a ring light that is mounted on the camera.
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#3
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
Ooops well then we will have to use the wall above the retro reflective tape.....
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#4
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
We used a latest generation Maglight for our tests, and I was seeing spots for about 5 minutes after looking at the beam even from a fairly high angle. I don't think my eyes are particularly light sensitive, but having a bunch of high powered flashlights on the field could potentially be eye-damaging or at least seriously annoying. I realize that the easy solution is to wear tinted safetys, but I don't think anyone really wants to do that.
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#5
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
How exactly would you tune the photon gate as your primary aiming system? Would you have the driver look for a certain arc height, intensity, or what? I've become mildly interested in using this, especially so the drivers wouldn't have to hunch over and look on the screen to aim.
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#6
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
To further elaborate on Mac's point. We were actually wondering whether FIRST would disallow the configuration we were testing as either a safety hazard or an attempt to interfere with the vision of the opposing drivers (as our goals are directly above the opposing drivers). What lights are you guys finding give you the most effective and concentrated beam?
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#7
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
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#8
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
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For an automatic targeting system, a driver/operator needs to be able to engage/dis-engage the system and trust that the software/hardware can line up the shot. Or they won't use it...period. In 2012, for a manual system, we tweaked and tweaked the flashlight mount, tweaked and tweaked the shooter angle and speed, and practiced and practiced with the driver to define a "sweet spot" on the target above the basket. Position the robot to hit the sweet spot with the flashlight, and make the basket. thanks, Eric |
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#9
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
Make sure its not going to blind the drivers, or else you could get penalties...
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#10
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
I would expect that if this idea takes off, it may get shutdown by R08, especially brighter lights like the one shown; which you stated you will replace with something less distracting, but copycats may not follow suit, thus creating a ruckus and causing the rules to tighten up significantly.
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#11
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
As long as no team lodges a official complaint, I would not expect to see anyone penalized under R08.
There is a defined mechanism for a team to notify the referee that they were distracted during the match. T13 If a TEAM needs clarification on a ruling or score, one (1) pre-college student from that TEAM should address the Head Referee after the ARENA reset signal (i.e. PLAYER STATION LED strings turn green). A TEAM member signals their desire to speak with the Head Referee by standing in the Red or Blue Question Box, which are located on the floor at each end of the scoring table. Depending on timing, the Head Referee may postpone any requested discussion until the end of the subsequent MATCH. If, after a match, all three teams lodged a distraction complaint, and this happened after every match in which a robot with a strong light played, I would expect the referees to do something about it. But, the referees will not attempt to read minds, and won't do anything about the rule if no one lodges a complaint. |
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#12
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We got some pretty powerful (1000lumen) bike lights in today and they work very well. We plan on covering the edges so it is more focused and less blinding.
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#13
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
Is this really a good alternative to vision targeting?
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#14
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
That is up to your driver. As stated earlier;
Only after trying out both vision targeting and a light will you be able to tell which is right for your driver. The flashlight was stuck on our 'bot last year just to please the mighty George Wallace. A few were skeptical at first. But our driver liked it much better, and that's what stayed with our 'bot through all of the competitions. As with any idea, it's hard to tell what is a better alternative until implementation. Though I still agree with some of the other posts. Be careful with your aiming. A light straight to the eye of the opposing alliance is not a good thing. |
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#15
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Re: Prelim Photon Cannon Test
We are probably going to do this, but use a slightly smaller light and have it on a spike so that we only have it on when we need to use it.
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