G04

[Jon Stratis]

A belay system that involves a significant mechanical advantage (think pulleys) could be used without much training or other equipment - someone holding it in their hands can reasonably be expected to apply 25-50 lbs of force on the rope to stop a robot.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

I do find it interesting and slightly disturbing that the rules/GDC is effectively being biased against teams that are vertically challenged, literally limiting their performance capabilities. By which, I mean a team with 1 or 2 tall individuals would have no such problem where a team that doesn't will.

My team is not personally effected by this (we've got tall, strong people), but it still seems unfair nonetheless to teams that don't.

[feverittm]

I agree with this discussion. I think the G04 problem will be a significant issue for some teams.

I also wonder. By Who and When will the belay system be attached to the robot? If by the field personal then they must have a ladder to reach the attach points right? The rule does not state that the belay must be attached by someone from the ground?

[Tem1514 Mentor]

Originally Posted by feverittm

I agree with this discussion. I think the G04 problem will be a significant issue for some teams.

I also wonder. By Who and When will the belay system be attached to the robot? If by the field personal then they must have a ladder to reach the attach points right? The rule does not state that the belay must be attached by someone from the ground?

Part A of the rule

"A. by the TEAM while standing on the floor without special equipment,"

seems very clear to me that the team members do everything from the ground only.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

I do find it interesting and slightly disturbing that the rules/GDC is effectively being biased against teams that are vertically challenged, literally limiting their performance capabilities. By which, I mean a team with 1 or 2 tall individuals would have no such problem where a team that doesn't will.

My team is not personally effected by this (we've got tall, strong people), but it still seems unfair nonetheless to teams that don't.

This is not unprecedented. 2009 featured a game that was biased against people that were colorblind.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Regardless of whether or not there is a precedent for discrimination, complaining here is not the best way to encourage change. Somehow, we need to express displeasure directly to FIRST if we truly want to be heard.

That being said, there is nothing in the rules that prohibits the use of robot parts to remove robots from the pyramid. Any tool that you might need to reach the release could be attached to a length of wire rope bolted to the frame and stowed on the bottom of the robot.

Similarly, fold-down, locking handles to allow shorter people to lift a robot that is otherwise above their reach could be bolted on and then only one person tall enough to release the handles is needed.

After the match the size constraints no longer apply, which gives more freedom in designing the retrieval assisting mechanisms. There is still a penalty in the form of weight and volume occupied by these elements, but any robot that can climb that high will already be devoting a lot of weight and volume to that mechanism. I hope this helps.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

Regardless of whether or not there is a precedent for discrimination, complaining here is not the best way to encourage change. Somehow, we need to express displeasure directly to FIRST if we truly want to be heard.

That being said, there is nothing in the rules that prohibits the use of robot parts to remove robots from the pyramid. Any tool that you might need to reach the release could be attached to a length of wire rope bolted to the frame and stowed on the bottom of the robot.

Similarly, fold-down, locking handles to allow shorter people to lift a robot that is otherwise above their reach could be bolted on and then only one person tall enough to release the handles is needed.

After the match the size constraints no longer apply, which gives more freedom in designing the retrieval assisting mechanisms. There is still a penalty in the form of weight and volume occupied by these elements, but any robot that can climb that high will already be devoting a lot of weight and volume to that mechanism. I hope this helps.

The robot could have a folding ladder! Rules against climbing the pyramid exist, but not against climbing the robot...

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

Regardless of whether or not there is a precedent for discrimination, complaining here is not the best way to encourage change. Somehow, we need to express displeasure directly to FIRST if we truly want to be heard.

That being said, there is nothing in the rules that prohibits the use of robot parts to remove robots from the pyramid. Any tool that you might need to reach the release could be attached to a length of wire rope bolted to the frame and stowed on the bottom of the robot.

Similarly, fold-down, locking handles to allow shorter people to lift a robot that is otherwise above their reach could be bolted on and then only one person tall enough to release the handles is needed.

After the match the size constraints no longer apply, which gives more freedom in designing the retrieval assisting mechanisms. There is still a penalty in the form of weight and volume occupied by these elements, but any robot that can climb that high will already be devoting a lot of weight and volume to that mechanism. I hope this helps.

On a similar note, what if your drive team is able to form a human pyramid to allow the top member to release whatever needs to be done? Technically legal but I think would fall under the Head Ref's jurisdiction to penalize unsafe procedures.

[Trent B]

I agree that this wouldn't be a bad idea: allowing extras to remove the bot. I tower over all of my students

[Bob Steele]

One team that has a mentor that can handle this is 2122...
See Mark... another reason for you to be around...
Mark is pretty tall....

[Trent B]

With fold down handles you only need one person tall enough to touch the robot and fold them down rather than 2 or 3 to lift it down.