50 POINTS

[Nicolas BR]

Do 50 points in every game in the qualifiers is a good score?

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by Nicolas BR

Do 50 points in every game in the qualifiers is a good score?

Per robot, or per alliance? Either way, that would win a lot of matches (looking at past games as an example).

Actually achieving such a score in every qualifying match is another challenge altogether

[Nicolas BR]

Originally Posted by dcarr

Per robot, or per alliance? Either way, that would win a lot of matches (looking at past games as an example).

Actually achieving such a score in every qualifying match is another challenge altogether

Per robot !

[Djur]

Well seeing as the ideal maximum points scored per alliance is

Auton: 9*6 + 6*6 = 90
Teleop: 45 * 3 + 6 * 5 = 165
Hanging: 30 * 3 = 90
Total: 315

Or an average 105 per robot, 50 per would not really be enough to beat powerhouse alliances in elimination matches, but likely more than enough for the randomly generated alliances in the qualification matches.

[Orion.DeYoe]

Originally Posted by Djur

Well seeing as the ideal maximum points scored per alliance is

Auton: 9*6 + 6*6 = 90
Teleop: 45 * 3 + 6 * 5 = 165
Hanging: 30 * 3 = 90
Total: 315

Or an average 105 per robot, 50 per would not really be enough to beat powerhouse alliances in elimination matches, but likely more than enough for the randomly generated alliances in the qualification matches.

Hmmm interesting math. I realize this is the "IDEAL MAXIMUM" but let's look at this from a more geometrically and strategically realistic perspective.
To score 90 points in autonomous the alliance has to pick up 6 discs off of the floor. So on your first point (autonomous) the robot feature "floor pickup" is required.
Now taking a look at the few pictures/descriptions of 3rd level climbing mechanisms coupled with my (and other) team's brainstorming results, most 3rd level climbing mechanisms are mounted on the bottom of the robot (from front to back) or take up a huge portion of the top of the robot. Coincidentally the bottom of the robot is where a pickup mechanism needs to be mounted and the top is where a shooter needs to be mounted (there will be exceptions but this is a generalization). So, basically I'm saying that a robot will be able to achieve a 30 point climb AND be able to shoot OR pickup (they could dumb in the 1 point goal) but not all three.
That reduces the autonomous score hugely. You can have three robots that shoot 3s (6 points each) but can't pick up more, you have three robots that pick up all 15 available discs and dump them in the 1 point goal (2 points each), or some combination of the above. That gives you a range from 30-54 (approximately) points in autonomous mode.
Do I think there will be outliers that can do all three? Yes, I do. You could take a mechanism like 3847's and put a climber on it and have all three. I think someONE will do it. But the chances (much less the probability) of three such robots making it onto one alliance (in eliminations) are so astronomically huge that I wouldn't even consider it a possibility.
Now, using that model lets move on to teleop. I can't speculate as much here because this period of the game depends more on drivers, strategy, presence of defense, and other factors more than how your robot is built.
I think your figure is pretty accurate (I think three robots could score all 45 discs in the alliance station) except that I don't think three 3rd level climbers could do it.
Now all we have left is endgame. If you were to have three robots climb to the top level they would all need to climb on the outside of the pyramid (probably on the corners) which limits your options slightly. If you could have two or three robots up there then it wouldn't be a stretch to dump all six colored discs in the goal.
So my conclusion is that 315 points isn't possible for an alliance to score. I think we will see some teams score 100+ points by themselves, but the structure of the competition doesn't allow three such robots to function to their full potential on the same alliance. Also, to answer the original question, I think that you will be able to win a regional with 50 points per match, but I don't think you will be able to go anywhere at St Louis without some improvement. I think 50 points is getting close to where to need to be but not enough to go all the way.

[NotaJoke]

50 points per team would be a very formidable alliance. Without the pyramid that would be 50 disks in the 3 point goal. Keep in mind the diminishing returns of only having 6 colored disks per alliance.

Also, consistency is a huge factor. If you can reliably contribute 50 points per match, your robot would be very valuable to any alliance.

Finally, whether or not it's a good score depends on the quality of the competition. If no other robot can score, 5 points per match is a good score. I predict at more competitive tournaments 100 points by a single robot is not only feasible, it (is in some cases) expected.

[nikeairmancurry]

Originally Posted by NotaJoke

50 points per team would be a very formidable alliance. Without the pyramid that would be 50 disks in the 3 point goal. Keep in mind the diminishing returns of only having 6 colored disks per alliance.

You forget Auton. Easy 18 per team before telop going 9/9 with 3 point shoots.

[Physicguy]

Originally Posted by Nicolas BR

Do 50 points in every game in the qualifiers is a good score?

If your robot could score 50 points per match would make you a good contender in regional competition

[JosephC]

Last year; the average qualification score was less then 25 points, a lot less in fact but I don't have the exact numbers in front of me. This year, I could see 40-50 being the average score, Assuming a decent number of 10 point hangers. Scoring 50 points all by yourself by climbing to the 30 and dumping 4 colored disks in would already be the average score, so you'd win 50% of your matches, add on your partners scores and you have a robot that will win most of its qualification matches, and either be an alliance captain or a high 1st pick.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by JosephC

Last year; the average qualification score was less then 25 points, a lot less in fact but I don't have the exact numbers in front of me. This year, I could see 40-50 being the average score, Assuming a decent number of 10 point hangers. Scoring 50 points all by yourself by climbing to the 30 and dumping 4 colored disks in would already be the average score, so you'd win 50% of your matches, add on your partners scores and you have a robot that will win most of its qualification matches, and either be an alliance captain or a high 1st pick.

Well if you say the other alliances is 4 defensive bots: 6(auto, all 3 want to low dump but only one can) + ^(tele-op for the other 2) +30(3 10pt hangs) = 42. If you score 50 by yourself, you should be able to win a couple matches by yourself.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Nicolas BR

Do 50 points in every game in the qualifiers is a good score?

Won't be able to give a definitive answer until week one. Right now, I would say it's a close call. I would also have to know how you're scoring the 50 points.
If you're scoring it as most people assume, with a 30 point climb and 20 point dump, then I would say that it may not be enough. While most likely a consistent method of scoring, potentially has the issue of being capped at 50 points. Possibly more if you can dump in autonomous and during the match, but you'd be hard pressed to break 65-70 points per robot.
If you're scoring the 50 points by shooting and a 10 point hang, it may be better than a 50 point climb/dump. Reasoning: The 18 points in autonomous should be a given. As well, a 10 point hang should also be a given, especially with designs like Spectrum 3847's simple passive hanger. That leaves 22 points to be scored by a shooter. Which is three full hoppers of frisbees to the top goal. Entirely do able in a minute and thirty seconds. Why this is better: This robot would be easily improvable to surpass 50 points by either making more trips to the feeding station (Driving practice = ability to dodge defenders or ability to change drive ratio for faster drive train.) OR the ability to add a floor pick up system and VASTLY cut down on trip time whitch would easily make 4 or 5 full hoppers feasible.

TL;DR a 50 point shooter could be improved upon. A 50 point climber is essentially capped at 50 points. You won't know until competition whether 50 points is a lot or a little. You may get there and teams "bluffed" their accuracy in their videos. You may get there and find out that all the shooters are bats out of hell and dang accurate.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by CalTran

Won't be able to give a definitive answer until week one. Right now, I would say it's a close call. I would also have to know how you're scoring the 50 points.
If you're scoring it as most people assume, with a 30 point climb and 20 point dump, then I would say that it may not be enough. While most likely a consistent method of scoring, potentially has the issue of being capped at 50 points. Possibly more if you can dump in autonomous and during the match, but you'd be hard pressed to break 65-70 points per robot.
If you're scoring the 50 points by shooting and a 10 point hang, it may be better than a 50 point climb/dump. Reasoning: The 18 points in autonomous should be a given. As well, a 10 point hang should also be a given, especially with designs like Spectrum 3847's simple passive hanger. That leaves 22 points to be scored by a shooter. Which is three full hoppers of frisbees to the top goal. Entirely do able in a minute and thirty seconds. Why this is better: This robot would be easily improvable to surpass 50 points by either making more trips to the feeding station (Driving practice = ability to dodge defenders or ability to change drive ratio for faster drive train.) OR the ability to add a floor pick up system and VASTLY cut down on trip time whitch would easily make 4 or 5 full hoppers feasible.

TL;DR a 50 point shooter could be improved upon. A 50 point climber is essentially capped at 50 points. You won't know until competition whether 50 points is a lot or a little. You may get there and teams "bluffed" their accuracy in their videos. You may get there and find out that all the shooters are bats out of hell and dang accurate.

Exactly. Say you build a shooter that can low hang: 18(3 in auto top) + 48(4 full trips, either load or gather) +10(low hang) = 76pts. You do that, you would probably win every regional before week 5 and still seed high everywhere after that minus, perhaps, MSC/MAR/CMP.

[nikeairmancurry]

Originally Posted by dodar

Exactly. Say you build a shooter that can low hang: 18(3 in auto top) + 48(4 full trips, either load or gather) +10(low hang) = 76pts. You do that, you would probably win every regional before week 5 and still seed high everywhere after that minus, perhaps, MSC/MAR/CMP.

Exactly what we want to do in week one.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by nikeairmancurry

Exactly what we want to do in week one.

And the best part is that you can become a better shooter, better loader/gatherer, and make a better hanger. But it is alot harder to build a big time hanger then modify after build to make it shoot consistently good at the top.

[nikeairmancurry]

Originally Posted by dodar

And the best part is that you can become a better shooter, better loader/gatherer, and make a better hanger. But it is alot harder to build a big time hanger then modify after build to make it shoot consistently good at the top.

Oh yes. The first few weeks a good shooter with a 10pt hang will be great. I'll take it!