What we learned from week 1

[pfreivald]

Defense is every bit as big as I expected it to be!

[Brian Ha]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

With all due respect, there is no such thing in this game. If you're going to be a full-court shooter you're maxing at 60"; defenders can be 84". 84" > 60", and there's no way you're going to be shooting steeply enough to get over them *if* they're in the right place. Now, you may not have had anyone that set anything up to be able to block you, but I guarantee it could have been done.

Having said that, congratulations on your win. Looks like you guys put up some great scores.

Unfortunately Jaxom, ill have to agree with Eric H. If you have the time to see, a way to beat the 84 inch tall blocker robots is to do exactly what 326 did, the super blah blah blah eagles. They have a rectangular robot with the shooter being parallel with the longer side. It is also near the back of their robot. This allows them to have the end height of their robot to be much higher than the standard shooter. This also makes it harder to block them because of the way their robot is built that you have to stay farther away from them to not incur penalties for touching them in their zone.

They were at Kettering, and while i don't think it turned out as well as they had wished is had for them, their robot is much more difficult to block them let's say 910 which is Foley Freeze.

I just wanted to input what i had seen at the Kettering District in accordance to what you said.

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by EricH

With all due respect, you're thinking inside the box. There are teams that may be able to get over 84" defenders by using other methods than the typical shooter.

That's me....I rarely see outside of the box. Do you have an example of something that keeps high accuracy combined with the appropriate geometry? Edit: I just realized that I didn't specify I've been talking about "park and shoot" full-courters. Forcing them to move & reaim won't STOP them from scoring but it will slow them down enough to make them no more effective than a fast under-the-pyramid shooter. Anyone that builds an automated track/aim/fire bot that can score while moving isn't easily blockable. It's also beyond the capabilities of all but a handful of teams. And it will be very exciting to watch the bot that proves me wrong.

Originally Posted by Brian Ha

If you have the time to see, a way to beat the 84 inch tall blocker robots is to do exactly what 326 did, the super blah blah blah eagles.

I looked at the quarterfinals, and see what you mean. However...their shooter is still exiting at what, about 50"-55"? I couldn't tell for sure, but that's what it looked like their lineup for autonomous put them at when comparing to the 2nd pyramid bar. And since it's still towards the middle of the bot, I don't see how it's that much further back from more "typical" shooters. So for those of you that have seen 326 in person....how would they have done against this contraption we put on our first-match alliance partner 4102 on Friday, to block 2468? I'm asking, not arguing; like I said, I'm pretty much an in-the-box guy.

As an aside -- it looked like 326 has a big open groove in the middle. Is that intended for climbing? That's too bad they fell over in Q1; rotten way to lose.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

It only happened to this degree a couple of time in Lubbock, but there were many times that the field reset folks were out there with tape on smaller repairs.

That seems like a field fault big enough to warrant a "foghorn" reset. I assume that wasn't the case?

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

That seems like a field fault big enough to warrant a "foghorn" reset. I assume that wasn't the case?

No. There were two of these that I saw; both were actually put back in place (mostly) by a robot running over them in the right direction.

[NotaJoke]

WAY too much time was wasted lining up, even for some members of winning alliances. This might change in later weeks, but the teams that carried victory were the once that took no time to line up, and simply drove into the pyramid to line up for shooting, or into the alliance wall for loading.

Few teams can floor load well. 'HOT arms' dominated this weekend. Also, floor loading isn't necessary for victory (but it can speed up cycle times considerably.)

There is no excuse for not 10 point hanging. Not hanging lost many teams many matches this weekend.

Crazy high penalty points can all be avoided by smarter maneuverability. Avoid the enemy pyramid at all cost, either by ducking under it, or hugging the side of the wall. EDIT: And not defending a robot when they clearly can't or shouldn't be defended (loading zone!)

Most Linear shooters are capable of full court scoring. Be prepared to defend it even if you haven't seen it from a robot earlier in the tournament. While short robots are nice for avoiding penalties, there should never be an alliance of three short robots. Edit: If there is, tape something tall to one of them

Most importantly: Never leave a robot off your pick list because they are 'too good'. Sometimes even the best of robots can slip past the scouts of earlier seeds, and even be available as third robots. Edit: I'm talking about you; 910!

EDIT: A top heavy robot is a fallen over robot. I won't feel bad for you when your robot falls over if you designed it to fall over, no offense intended.

Also the impact of 'Robot in 3 Days' is very clear even at week one. A huge thanks to the guys who thought of it/put in the effort to actually do it! You're changing the face of FIRST, and making every match that much more exciting.

[Andrew Zeller]

Originally Posted by NotaJoke

EDIT: A top heavy robot is a fallen over robot. I won't feel bad for you when your robot falls over if you designed it to fall over, no offense intended.

http://youtu.be/C8Ftc_M-n6I?t=29s That was not a joke.

[jwallace15]

1. A lot of teams are using mechanum.
2. Not climbing can hurt you (already said by NotaJoke).
3. It's going to be hard to focus a camera through the netting, and not being able to get close to the field to take pictures will prove to be difficult.
4. Our center of gravity + the speed of our drivetrain = a lot of wheelies.
5. Watch out for flying frisbees.
6. Robots WILL get stuck in the pyramid (it took volunteers almost 5 minutes to get a robot down once).
7. Big sheets of lexan make for great noisemakers in the stands.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by jwallace15

7. Big sheets of lexan make for great noisemakers in the stands.

Please read:

Originally Posted by FRC Manual

4.13.3 Competition Spirit
We ask that you bring attention to your team in ways that are in good taste and in the spirit of the competition. Please refrain from the following:

• Using noisemakers;
• Using objects that can damage bleachers or floors;
• Wearing inappropriate clothing; and/or
• Taping or affixing items or papers to walls, bleachers, floors or other site areas.

Please make sure your team Pit and surrounding area is clean when you leave the site.

I really wish these rules were better enforced.

I usually bring and wear earplugs to competitions, because usually its so loud I cannot have a conversation with the person next to me in the stands without yelling. It's bad when you have to text back and forth to communicate without losing your voice in ten minutes.

[electroken]

Originally Posted by NotaJoke

EDIT: A top heavy robot is a fallen over robot. I won't feel bad for you when your robot falls over if you designed it to fall over, no offense intended.

Despite other problems, this was the final undoing of the #3 alliance at GSR.

[Gdeaver]

That powder coated conduit is much more slippery than we anticipated. Much worse than raw conduit or can spray painted conduit. We intend to drive up the rail however we need more grip from the wheels. Some very well done shooters and way to many marginal shooters. Last week I was fearing very accurate cross court shooters. I did not see any that struck fear. Will they emerge in the following weeks? A 10 point hang was very effective for week 1 but will it not be enough going forward? Will the quick 20 or thirty point climber gain dominance? Taking the whole tele opp to climb is not good enough and a risky partner. Is a pyramid safe zone really a safe zone? Seems the refs at different venues had varying interpretations of this. One thing for sure this game has plenty of room to evolve.

[notmattlythgoe]

It is very easy for defenders to slow down the flow of the game.

[MrForbes]

I only saw a few matches on the webcasts, mostly during eliminations. I was surprised how few teams were attempting floor pickup in autonomous...this looked to me early on to be a great strategy, and more "worth the effort" than building a high climbing mechanism.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Gdeaver

Is a pyramid safe zone really a safe zone? Seems the refs at different venues had varying interpretations of this. One thing for sure this game has plenty of room to evolve.

This is definitely something that will be clarified in a Blog post, and if not definitely asked during the Driver meetings. Specifically, how the Refs at the tournament will be calling out G27 and G30.

... ...

Originally Posted by G27

ROBOTS may not contact or otherwise interfere with their opponents’ PYRAMID. Inconsequential contact will not be penalized.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL. If an opponent’s CLIMB is affected,

RED CARD, and
Each affected opponent ROBOT will be awarded points for a successful Level 3 CLIMB.

Originally Posted by G30

G30
Regardless of who initiates the contact, a ROBOT may not contact an opponent ROBOT

• contacting its PYRAMID or
• touching the carpet in its LOADING ZONE.

Violation: FOUL. If purposeful or consequential, TECHNICAL FOUL. If an opponent's CLIMB is affected, each affected opponent ROBOT will be awarded points for a successful Level 3 CLIMB.

Emphasis (Emphasi?) mine. By reading of the rules, if Red 1 is in contact with the Red Pyramid, and Blue 1 contacts Red 1, then it is a foul (Technical if the robot is climbing), as per G30, AND regardless of who initiated contact. HOWEVER, If Blue 1 contacts the Red PYRAMID then it is a TECHNICAL foul AND a potential RED CARD if Red 1 is in the act of climbing, as per G27. Each ruling carries the potential for a 50 point Super-Technical, should Red 1 be in the process of climbing.

That's how I currently interpret the rules, and I implore you to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Storcky]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

It only happened to this degree a couple of time in Lubbock, but there were many times that the field reset folks were out there with tape on smaller repairs.

Did this ever get a penalty from G14?