Removing the feeder stations slides

[Grim Tuesday]

Observed at NYC, FEEDERS have been removing the "slides" on the FEEDER SLOTS. Referees do not seem to have been calling penalties or cards on it. Anyone have any idea what's going on here?

http://i.imgur.com/ynSwcJk.jpg

Q&A has been asked.

[engunneer]

I noticed this too. Are they removing the top cover, or the whole thing?

[PVCpirate]

I always assume that the field is supposed to remain set up the way it is described in The Arena, so I don't think it should be allowed:

Each slot has a slide attached to it on the FEEDER side of the plastic. These slides are 8 in. long and are at a 30-degree incline.

I can't find a foul that specifically relates to humans changing the field though. The closest I can find is G14, although that appears to be directed at robots, not humans.

[Radical Pi]

Originally Posted by engunneer

I noticed this too. Are they removing the top cover, or the whole thing?

They're removing the colored plastic cover, which is held on by velcro. The clear plastic slide is staying in place

[nixiebunny]

Good opportunity for lawyering. The FIELD is on the inside of the wall, not the outside.

I'll be interested to see how the management deals with this. I assume the generic "do the right thing" and the "no lawyering" rules would kick in.

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by nixiebunny

Good opportunity for lawyering. The FIELD is on the inside of the wall, not the outside.

I'll be interested to see how the management deals with this. I assume the generic "do the right thing" and the "no lawyering" rules would kick in.

In this case it seems pretty clear cut:

FIELD: the area bounded by and including the GUARDRAILS, ALLIANCE WALLS, LOW GOALS, and FEEDER STATIONS.

Emphasis mine

[FrankJ]

Maybe G7 by delaying the game by modifying the field.

Maybe by not allowing frisbees to be fed into incomplete feeder stations. G35

Maybe a red card for egregious behavior for not following directions of field officials when asked not do that.

[Grim Tuesday]

UPDATE: We were contacted by a FIRST representative and she said that question was answered before it could go through the internal channels and if anyone had seen the unofficial answer, it should be taken as such. Considering this, I've deleted the below quote, which was their draft of an answer to it. To fully redact their answer, they had to delete the question as well so we can ask it again if we wish, though I think Siri below answers it pretty well. The GDC's thinking in the unoffical answer was that it would be against G14 to modify the field.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

Maybe G7 by delaying the game by modifying the field.

Maybe by not allowing frisbees to be fed into incomplete feeder stations. G35

Maybe a red card for egregious behavior for not following directions of field officials when asked not do that.

No 5.5.4 cards; we explicitly allowed them to remove the velcroed-on corrugated covers under certain conditions. I'll let higher powers speak to how and why, but before the frenzy starts, it was fully sanctioned by the all relevant local field authorities.

[PVCpirate]

Ah, so G14 does apply to people as well as robots. I don't have a problem if it was allowed by the NYC event officials, but now that there is an official ruling it should not be allowed in the future.

[Becca334]

At the drivers meeting at the end of Day 2 they told us we could remove them if we wanted to. But then at the start of today they told us that we can only remove the cover if the cover was damaged and a referee OKd it. By the mid-end of the day lots of the covers were falling off from bent too much/velcro not working etc.

[Grim Tuesday]

I don't know if there is an official ruling on it anymore. When I quoted Q&A, the question was there. I just checked and they deleted my question (along with the draft answer), so maybe there will be a team update. Very unusual.

Update: A FIRST representative called our main team contact and told her that the answer given was unofficial and they had to delete the entire question thread to fully redact the answer. She said we were welcome to resubmit the question but I don't really see a reason to, as Rebecca and Siri answered it.

[Kevin Sevcik]

The issue of course is that the covers are made out of flimsy corrugated plastic and they deteriorate over the course of the regional till they end up blocking the chute and making it extremely difficult to get frisbees out. It's kind of sad that a practice feeder station made out of plywood would work better than the official field.

[tim-tim]

I noticed the issue becoming more of a factor as the competition went on in Palmetto. The covers were not taken off there and teams seemed to be capable of performing well. I know our feeder had a few issues here and there, but when do you not have to overcome things in FIRST.

Also note that the feeders don't help the situation. In my personal opinion the frisbees should not be stacked on top if the feeder slots. I think several things should happen: FIRST releases a 'beefed up' feeder slot cover, FIRST issues an update stating the covers cannot be removed, and the frisbees are no longer allowed to be stored/kept on top of the slots.

Just my opinion.

[FrankJ]

In general modifying the field would be against the rules. If it is being done with the knowledge & consent of the officials then you really cannot penalize the teams for doing it regardless of the ultimate decision. Sounds like this was the case.