Go to Post GP is best shown and lived and not talked about. - Steve W [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2013, 10:36
brrian27's Avatar
brrian27 brrian27 is offline
the Mormon
AKA: Brian
FRC #2383 (Ninjineers)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 159
brrian27 has a reputation beyond reputebrrian27 has a reputation beyond reputebrrian27 has a reputation beyond reputebrrian27 has a reputation beyond reputebrrian27 has a reputation beyond reputebrrian27 has a reputation beyond reputebrrian27 has a reputation beyond reputebrrian27 has a reputation beyond reputebrrian27 has a reputation beyond reputebrrian27 has a reputation beyond reputebrrian27 has a reputation beyond repute
Importance of Climbing

So with lots of teams having participated in regionals or at least having watched some other regionals, what value do you now place on climbing? Have you seen it make a big impact on winning alliances, or has it become a secondary feature to better shooting?

Personally at Orlando, dominant shooting could be beat out, as seen by the 50-pt climb that 4451 Robots Garage completed every time (I think). Their climb was huge, got them multiple awards, and regional finalists. We hope to perfect out climbing for South Florida in a few weeks and make a large impact.

So what have you seen? Is climbing important or not?
__________________
team2383.com
2011-14: Student- Team 2383, the Ninjineers (2013-14: Drive Team Coach & 2014: Co-Captain)
5 Team Spirit Awards --- 1 Excellence in Engineering Award --- 1 Regional Finalists
Currently : Student- Brigham Young University

2015 SOUTH FLORIDA REGIONAL CHAMPS #BLUEBANNERYEAR ARCHIMEDES DIVISION FINALISTS
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2013, 11:02
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is online now
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 5,951
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Importance of Climbing

I think we've seen a few threads on this topic already. From what I saw in San Diego, it was far less important than accurate shooting. However, the 10 point hang was worth doing, it didn't take much time and the extra points were needed if the opposing alliance's robots all hang.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2013, 11:02
Jay O'Donnell's Avatar
Jay O'Donnell Jay O'Donnell is online now
Division by Pirates
FRC #0229 (Division by Zero)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Potsdam, NY/Londonderry, NH
Posts: 1,341
Jay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Importance of Climbing

It depends on how fast you do it...if you spend the entire match climbing, then in my opinion you are hurting your alliance. If you can get the 50 point climb in 30 seconds or less, and either score or play defense the rest of the time, then you will be a huge asset to your alliance.
__________________
Student on Team 1058 (2012-2015)
Mentor on Team 229 (2016-Present)
Writer for Blue Alliance Blog
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2013, 11:55
Ninja_Bait's Avatar
Ninja_Bait Ninja_Bait is offline
Former Prez of Making Things Go
AKA: Jake Potter
FRC #0694 (StuyPulse)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 650
Ninja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Importance of Climbing

In New York, our alliance (694, 4797 and 3137) won in quarterfinals by outshooting an alliance with a 30-pt climber but weak shooters. We then won semifinals by putting up 20-30 climb points (10 each) along with shooting against an alliance of 3 amazing shooters.

tl;dr: Winning is about being able to adapt to any strategy by figuring out what is important on a match-by-match basis, not on a CD-thread-hypothetical basis.
__________________
You can't fix something that isn't broken... but you can always break things that aren't fixed!

  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2013, 08:32
45Auto's Avatar
45Auto 45Auto is offline
Registered User
FRC #2992
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Slidell, La
Posts: 150
45Auto has a brilliant future45Auto has a brilliant future45Auto has a brilliant future45Auto has a brilliant future45Auto has a brilliant future45Auto has a brilliant future45Auto has a brilliant future45Auto has a brilliant future45Auto has a brilliant future45Auto has a brilliant future45Auto has a brilliant future
Re: Importance of Climbing

Points are points. Doesn't matter how they're scored.

A 50 point climber/dumper that spends the whole game doing it is more valuable than the shooter who spends the whole game (including autonomous) scoring less than 50 points.

Any time less than 2 minutes required by the climber can be used by it to block the opposing alliance. A climber that takes 45 seconds to climb can spend half the match blocking the opposing shooters. Turning a 3-frisbee-cycle opposing robot into a 2-frisbee-cycle opposing robot (costing the opposing alliance 12 points) is the same thing as the climber scoring 12 points.

Obviously a dominant shooter has the potential to outscore a climber/dumper. Seeing how the average total alliance score after the first 3 weeks is less than 50 points, it's pretty obvious that the a typical shooter is scoring much less than 30 points total per game.
__________________

2007 - Rookie All Star - Bayou Regional (1858 - Tyborgs)
2009 - Rookie All Star - Bayou Regional (2992 -Prometheus)
2010 - Champions - Bayou Regional (2992 -Prometheus)
2012 - Finalist - Bayou Regional (2992 - Prometheus)
team2992.com/design.php

Last edited by 45Auto : 17-03-2013 at 08:34.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2013, 08:54
MrRiedemanJACC MrRiedemanJACC is offline
Registered User
FRC #2611 (Jacktown Vectors)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Grass Lake, MI
Posts: 151
MrRiedemanJACC will become famous soon enough
Re: Importance of Climbing

Umm where are you getting your data that the average total alliance is getting less than 50 pts per game? If you mean winning and losing you may be right, but this weekend at st. Joseph's those numbers seemed to be much higher than that. But then again we lost in semi finals scoring 108 and 113, so I may be a little biased....


Quote:
Originally Posted by 45Auto View Post
Points are points. Doesn't matter how they're scored.

A 50 point climber/dumper that spends the whole game doing it is more valuable than the shooter who spends the whole game (including autonomous) scoring less than 50 points.

Any time less than 2 minutes required by the climber can be used by it to block the opposing alliance. A climber that takes 45 seconds to climb can spend half the match blocking the opposing shooters. Turning a 3-frisbee-cycle opposing robot into a 2-frisbee-cycle opposing robot (costing the opposing alliance 12 points) is the same thing as the climber scoring 12 points.

Obviously a dominant shooter has the potential to outscore a climber/dumper. Seeing how the average total alliance score after the first 3 weeks is less than 50 points, it's pretty obvious that the a typical shooter is scoring much less than 30 points total per game.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2013, 10:37
Weinberger's Avatar
Weinberger Weinberger is offline
Registered User
FRC #1683 (Techno Titans)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Johns Creek, GA
Posts: 25
Weinberger is an unknown quantity at this point
Peachtree Regional finals came down to climbing, lead change at the last second! Teams (4th seed, Red) 1683:4509:832 vs. (7th seed,Blue) 3489:4026:4080
Ref called three 10point climbs for Blue. Red had two successful 10point hangs. Red climb points were uncontested. But all three bots in blue were reviewed by ref team. Required a long discussion & Jan Spurlin (Head Ref at Peachtree) confirmed 30points, in favor for Blue. blue takes Championships by 97-88; congrats Category 5. And Jeremy Roberts from 4026. And that disc hucking 4080 bot from the feeder station. Killer alliance. Amazing match, we (1683) had a blast playing these finals matches.
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2013, 12:35
Squeakypig's Avatar
Squeakypig Squeakypig is offline
Registered User
AKA: Mike Coyle
FRC #2851 (Crevolution)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Sterling Heights, Michigan
Posts: 170
Squeakypig has a reputation beyond reputeSqueakypig has a reputation beyond reputeSqueakypig has a reputation beyond reputeSqueakypig has a reputation beyond reputeSqueakypig has a reputation beyond reputeSqueakypig has a reputation beyond reputeSqueakypig has a reputation beyond reputeSqueakypig has a reputation beyond reputeSqueakypig has a reputation beyond reputeSqueakypig has a reputation beyond reputeSqueakypig has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Importance of Climbing

At the Detroit district, having a 10 point climb was very important for winning...unless you could score 6-8 discs at the end while everyone is hanging *cough* 469 *cough*. We tried to counter that by hanging for 10 and shooting 4 while hanging...instead of countering, we just teamed up!

In conclusion, hanging is good, so is 469.
__________________

  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2013, 17:36
MrRiedemanJACC MrRiedemanJACC is offline
Registered User
FRC #2611 (Jacktown Vectors)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Grass Lake, MI
Posts: 151
MrRiedemanJACC will become famous soon enough
Re: Importance of Climbing

Oh, don't get me wrong hanging is good, but going for 30 is just too risky in my opinion. 10 is easy and should be done by all teams. Well, unless this happens....

http://imgur.com/r34BB3L
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2013, 17:40
rzoeller rzoeller is offline
MN GOFIRST Recruitment Officer
AKA: Ryan Zoeller
FRC #2169 (RI3D 'Snow Problem; KING TeC)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Savage, MN
Posts: 111
rzoeller is a jewel in the roughrzoeller is a jewel in the roughrzoeller is a jewel in the rough
Re: Importance of Climbing

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRiedemanJACC View Post
Oh, don't get me wrong hanging is good, but going for 30 is just too risky in my opinion. 10 is easy and should be done by all teams. Well, unless this happens....

http://imgur.com/r34BB3L
How were penalties called for this?
__________________
Ri3D - 'Snow Problem Programmer
MN GOFIRST Recruitment Officer
FRC 2169 Alumni
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2013, 18:16
MrRiedemanJACC MrRiedemanJACC is offline
Registered User
FRC #2611 (Jacktown Vectors)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Grass Lake, MI
Posts: 151
MrRiedemanJACC will become famous soon enough
Re: Importance of Climbing

Our alliance was awarded 50 climb points. Two of us climbed for 10, the third member was awarded a full 30 pt climb. Only one was actually touching the red bot at the end of the match.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2013, 18:25
Gregor's Avatar
Gregor Gregor is offline
#StickToTheStratisQuo
AKA: Gregor Browning
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,447
Gregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Importance of Climbing

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRiedemanJACC View Post
Our alliance was awarded 50 climb points. Two of us climbed for 10, the third member was awarded a full 30 pt climb. Only one was actually touching the red bot at the end of the match.
Was there a tech foul on red for violating G30?
__________________
What are nationals? Sounds like a fun American party, can we Canadians come?
“For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity.” -Jean Dubuffet
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
FLL 2011-2015 Glen Ames Robotics-Student, Mentor
FRC 2012-2013 Team 907-Scouting Lead, Strategy Lead, Human Player, Driver
FRC 2014-2015 Team 1310-Mechanical, Electrical, Drive Captain
FRC 2011-xxxx Volunteer
How I came to be a FIRSTer
<Since 2011
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2013, 19:10
MrRiedemanJACC MrRiedemanJACC is offline
Registered User
FRC #2611 (Jacktown Vectors)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Grass Lake, MI
Posts: 151
MrRiedemanJACC will become famous soon enough
Re: Importance of Climbing

We were awarded 23 foul points for that match per frc-spy. Not sure of the breakout. Tomorrow I will check with my student who went to the question box to get clarification.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2013, 20:14
FRC BOTMOM FRC BOTMOM is offline
Registered User
FRC #3319 (G.R.E.A.T)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 20
FRC BOTMOM will become famous soon enoughFRC BOTMOM will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to FRC BOTMOM
Smile Re: Importance of Climbing

At the NC. regional in the quarter finals the 6th seeded
alliance 3319,2642 and 3196 had 2 30 pt climbers and a 10pt for a total of 70pts. That was impressive!
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-03-2013, 08:52
Clem1640's Avatar
Clem1640 Clem1640 is offline
Head Mentor
AKA: Clem McKown
FRC #1640 (Sab-BOT-age)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Downingtown PA
Posts: 249
Clem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond reputeClem1640 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Importance of Climbing

I agree with 45Auto. Points are points. Ultimate Ascent is a high-scoring game, with alliance scores of 140 or more not uncommon. A good shooter can easily outscore a dedicated climber.

On the other hand, a balanced design combining a good shooter with a quick climb (30 s) can contribute significantly to its alliance's score.
__________________


Clem McKown
Head Mentor - FRC 1640 & FTC 7314
Chairman - Downingtown Area Robotics
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi