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Unread 30-03-2013, 19:44
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

Wow, I'm really surprised to see so many people against this practice!

My team only ever goes to one regional, so I guess it's different at others, but I've never heard the call of "ROBOT!" as a "Get out of my way or I'm going to run you over!" sort of thing (Which is certainly rude and arrogant), I've always heard is as a warning, like "FORE" in golf.

We always have people out in front of the cart to clear a path, and don't go ramming the cart through if there are people in the way, but we still yell "ROBOT!" as a warning to people nearby to watch themselves. We also often yell "Watch out! Robot coming through!"

Robots often may have protruding arms or elements that (while inside the frame perimeter of course) may still hit people who thought they were out of the way. If you direct your warnings only to the people in front of you, who are in your way, people on the sides of you may not be looking out for you.

So alerting people in the area, not just the people directly in front of you is necessary in my opinion.
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Unread 30-03-2013, 20:15
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

Signed.

I find teams who calmly walk through the pits with someone in front of the cart politely asking people to move and saying 'excuse me' far more professional that someone yelling 'robot' constantly.

In some cases the students seem to think that volume is key, and actually hurt your ears as they walk by yelling it.
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Unread 30-03-2013, 23:00
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by CENTURION View Post
Wow, I'm really surprised to see so many people against this practice!

My team only ever goes to one regional, so I guess it's different at others, but I've never heard the call of "ROBOT!" as a "Get out of my way or I'm going to run you over!" sort of thing (Which is certainly rude and arrogant), I've always heard is as a warning, like "FORE" in golf.

We always have people out in front of the cart to clear a path, and don't go ramming the cart through if there are people in the way, but we still yell "ROBOT!" as a warning to people nearby to watch themselves. We also often yell "Watch out! Robot coming through!"

Robots often may have protruding arms or elements that (while inside the frame perimeter of course) may still hit people who thought they were out of the way. If you direct your warnings only to the people in front of you, who are in your way, people on the sides of you may not be looking out for you.

So alerting people in the area, not just the people directly in front of you is necessary in my opinion.
+1, or thumbs up. Totally agreed.
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Unread 30-03-2013, 23:19
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

Perhaps to go along with the Mustang/Cowboy theme our team has going, I'll add a steel cowcatcher to the front of our cart so we don't have to yell "robot" anymore...

On a serious note, comparing yelling "robot" to "fore" is an analogy that I don't think holds. On a golf course, people could be yards and yards away and are already somewhat expecting a golf ball to the head. At a competition, with public pits and what not, people aren't coming for the thrill of getting run over by a sprinting teenager wildly piloting a cart.
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Unread 31-03-2013, 01:12
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

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Originally Posted by CalTran View Post
Perhaps to go along with the Mustang/Cowboy theme our team has going, I'll add a steel cowcatcher to the front of our cart so we don't have to yell "robot" anymore...

On a serious note, comparing yelling "robot" to "fore" is an analogy that I don't think holds. On a golf course, people could be yards and yards away and are already somewhat expecting a golf ball to the head. At a competition, with public pits and what not, people aren't coming for the thrill of getting run over by a sprinting teenager wildly piloting a cart.
Right, and I'm not advocating people barreling down the aisle with 200ish pounds of cart and robot. Go slow, be careful, and watch out for people.

But at the same time, the drivers and robot need to get places, and need people out of their way And we don't want anyone to get hurt when, say, they take a step backwards into the aisle (as teenagers will sometimes do), and get smacked by a robot appendage.
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Unread 31-03-2013, 15:52
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

While serving as an ambassador this weekend at CTR, I was giving a tour and teams were yelling Robot, and kept yelling it louder and louder while I attempted to move the group of guests I was taking on a tour over. Needless to guests had commented to me they were not happy.

I've always been against yelling ROBOT, but after this weekend, I strongly feel this needs to stop, now, period.
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Unread 31-03-2013, 16:15
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

Lets stick it in the rule book, next to the part where you can't save seats at the venues. I'm sure everyone will follow the rule then.

I really think that a Limit for the number of students from a team is needed for the pits, but enforcing it would be a nightmare. You need to allow for students to wander the pits and see all of the teams, as well as for parents of students. I just don't know how to go about it - and most likely neither does FIRST, which is why you don't see a limit or any kind of answer to this problem.

And I ask again, where is the letter to FIRST that we are signing?
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Unread 31-03-2013, 16:23
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

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Originally Posted by Tetraman View Post
Lets stick it in the rule book, next to the part where you can't save seats at the venues. I'm sure everyone will follow the rule then.

I really think that a Limit for the number of students from a team is needed for the pits, but enforcing it would be a nightmare. You need to allow for students to wander the pits and see all of the teams, as well as for parents of students. I just don't know how to go about it - and most likely neither does FIRST, which is why you don't see a limit or any kind of answer to this problem.
I'd argue a good first step would be to stop having the Green Shirts waste their time forcing safe and professional teams to yell "ROBOT!" and start using it to enforce everyone de-crowding and staying in their pit area. I'm willing to bet crowdedness will do go a lot if the safety guys really made it their priority and put it visibly as one of the top safety award considerations (as well it should be).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetraman View Post
And I ask again, where is the letter to FIRST that we are signing?
I think it's the Change petition? Does that work? Doesn't seem to have as many signers as the thread, though.
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Unread 31-03-2013, 16:27
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Thumbs up Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

I haven't heard it nearly as much as I used to. In 2011 Championship, there were of course robots EVERYWHERE. So every other person was screaming "ROBOT!!!!". Yeah, ok.... *raising hand*
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Unread 31-03-2013, 16:46
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

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Originally Posted by Siri View Post
I think it's the Change petition? Does that work? Doesn't seem to have as many signers as the thread, though.
Yep, I talked with sanddrag before creating this as to not hijack his thread. Things tend to be overlooked when people don't read the entire thread:

Petition to FIRST to stop encouraging teams to shout "Robot!"
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Unread 31-03-2013, 16:54
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by nukemknight View Post
Yep, I talked with sanddrag before creating this as to not hijack his thread. Things tend to be overlooked when people don't read the entire thread:

Petition to FIRST to stop encouraging teams to shout "Robot!"
I'd rather sign a letter being sent to FIRST Headquarters, rather than an internet petition. I feel that FIRST may not even be aware of the issue, and sending a letter addressing the concerns and asking for action is a lot more convincing.

Or maybe even ask Frank to read up on this thread would be just as good since we have all "signed" our support already.
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Unread 31-03-2013, 22:39
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

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Originally Posted by Tetraman View Post
Lets stick it in the rule book, next to the part where you can't save seats at the venues. I'm sure everyone will follow the rule then.
While a rule may not be as effective as we would wish, my main point is that Safety Advisers should not be rewarding/encouraging this behavior.
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Unread 31-03-2013, 23:07
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

I find the shouting of robot very annoying and obnoxious. My coach tells our team never to shout robot. Instead, you should say, "Excuse me, robot coming through." or "Could you please move, robot coming through." Even when we were late to a match, we still continued to hold to this term.

Last edited by bfish888 : 31-03-2013 at 23:09.
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Unread 31-03-2013, 23:45
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

I propose that if a letter is actually drafted for FIRST HQ, it be centered not just around safety advisers mandating "ROBOT!", but around better safety advice in general, including but not limited to:
  1. Advocating the Polite Vanguard Technique
  2. Further encouraging pit activities to be confined to the pit (namely by the safety advisers advising any team that cannot contain its equipment, personnel and visitors to change one of the former)
  3. Examining the practices required and rewarded by safety advisers and the safety award (safe or spectacle? how are advisers trained?)

Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lydia Yeckley View Post
On the other side of things, it is a sense of tradition that would be lost to history. Then again, so did personalized, team bumpers, and reserving seats in arenas.
It's what...err, one, two, three...seven* years old? I'd really like to know how it became tradition in the first place. Was it at a Green Shirt meeting in 2007 or something? The UL winner at Championships? (I actually don't remember in the Mid-Atlantic until 2008.)


*wait, no, seven? seriously, seven? I don't want to be old
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Unread 31-03-2013, 23:55
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Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

The pits are historically a very chaotic place, and for good reason. The shouting of "Robot!" is, as already pointed out, a degenerative practice that does little to increase order in the pits.

The way I see it, there are several factors at play that can be manipulated:
  • Overcrowding can be reduced by limiting the number of persons allowed in the pits
  • Space can be allocated more efficiently: add aisles dedicated to robot transportation
  • Teams can take it upon themselves to reduce the noise and disorder.
The third bullet, IMO, is the easiest to undertake, as it is a simple behavioral change that doesn't affect the grandeur of the pits. I'd like to add some more thoughts as to how you can achieve more order with the polite method of robot transportation:
  • As stated, send one or two members a few feet ahead to begin clearing space.
  • If you are able to maneuver the robot + cart around a group, do so, and without voicing your intent. This is my #1 issue: teams generally call "Robot!" without thinking about the path they're taking through the pit, as it they should have a straight-line trip to/from their pit. If it is possible to avoid someone, quietly and politely do so.
  • Be patient! If there is a roadblock, wait for people to move and thank them for doing so afterwards. Common courtesy goes a long way.
  • To aid in many of the situations mentioned in this thread involving extremely crowded pits, I would suggest everyone takes trip time into account. I realize this can be hard for teams trying to make it onto the field, but this is where your path-clearing members come in handy. Make sure people are well aware that a robot will be coming through in a moment, but again, do so in an amicable manner.

I'm going to try to speak with the safety advisors at our next event on Thursday morning and convince them to help with the endeavor of keeping the pits as quiet and professional as possible. I think this is a good short-term solution, if at least someone at each regional has a courteous discussion with the nice green-shirted folk
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