Who is going to be on Einstein?

[shhrz]

Originally Posted by dodar

1. Corner-to-Pyramid
2. FCS
3. Ground Pickup

You will not win this year unless you go full offense.

I tend to agree with this, however adding to it:
2. FCS that is PRECISE (meaning 85%+) with the ability to go to pyramid if blocked. This allows him to "pin-down" a deefnding robot, who will try to block him, and so he can move to pyramid.

All robots should have AT LEAST 10 climb points, and at least one of them should have mrore than a 3-disc auto. Regardless, for all of them - auto should be perfect...

[c.aldridge]

Originally Posted by dodar

1. Corner-to-Pyramid
2. FCS
3. Ground Pickup

You will not win this year unless you go full offense.

I don't necessarily agree with that. The number 1 alliance at Alamo did not advance to finals with their full offensive team. They were composed of:
1. 1477 with a guaranteed 3 frisbee auto and tried to get the middle 4
2. 624 with a 5-7 frisbee auto
3. 457 with a 3 frisbee auto

They started the semis with 70+ pts and still lost against a quick shooter from 4063, 2789 playing defense and allowing 2468 to shoot full court. It was close, but the primarily offensive team was upset.

Also just realized you were at Alamo so you were able to see this occur.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by c.aldridge

I don't necessarily agree with that. The number 1 alliance at Alamo did not advance to finals with their full offensive team. They were composed of:
1. 1477 with a guaranteed 3 frisbee auto and tried to get the middle 4
2. 624 with a 5-7 frisbee auto
3. 457 with a 3 frisbee auto

They started the semis with 70+ pts and still lost against a quick shooter from 4063, 2789 playing defense and allowing 2468 to shoot full court. It was close, but the primarily offensive team was upset.

The #1 at Alamo wasnt full offense and you cannot honestly compare Alamo to Einstein and Champs. Imagine giving 1986/1806 or 2056/1114 a capable ground pickup or FCS. Seeing as we saw the 1114/2056/FCS at GTRE, they threw up like 230. And that was just a FCS that sprayed and prayed and played pretty much to just feed 2056.

[c.aldridge]

Originally Posted by dodar

The #1 at Alamo wasnt full offense and you cannot honestly compare Alamo to Einstein and Champs. Imagine giving 1986/1806 or 2056/1114 a capable ground pickup or FCS. Seeing as we saw the 1114/2056/FCS at GTRE, they threw up like 230. And that was just a FCS that sprayed and prayed and played pretty much to just feed 2056.

I would say they were fully offensive because 457 ended up shooting at times and did not play absolute defense. I also understand Alamo was not on the level of Einstein, just that the fully offensive team will potentially fail. Slowing down the other team in this game, unless they are nimble and fit under the pyramid, can be very easy if you allow yourself the opportunity. I see it from last year, although game object deprivation cannot be accomplished this year, slowing down the other team by playing defense took 16's alliance to the top.

[StAxis]

I think that the ideal alliance would have very close to the setup we had with our winning alliance at South Florida (180-1902-1251)

1. Full court shooter capable of pyramid shooting in case of a "SPAM Filter" (84 inch blocker named after one made by a team trying to stop 180's shooter)
2. Cycling pyramid shooter
3. Defense and Floor pickup

Essentially the full court and pyramid shooter score until they run out of discs (Generally with 55-50 seconds to go) while the third defends, at that point the two offensive robots defend and if one has pickup they go to do that along with the third robot. The other switches to defense.
At least one must have floor pickup capable of 7 disc autonomous.
Preferably one offensive bot has a 50 point climb.

The winning alliance will have to be a very versatile alliance capable of playing 3 robot offense or full defense in order to counter the strategies of whatever team they play against.

In order to win matches you do not have to score your maximum number of points, you just have to make the score difference a maximum, which is the reason the 180-25-16 alliance did so well. They prevented their opponents from scoring quickly and maximized their ability to score quickly that is the one thing that will always remain true no matter what game.

[ErvinI]

Originally Posted by dodar

Seeing as we saw the 1114/2056/FCS at GTRE, they threw up like 230. And that was just a FCS that sprayed and prayed and played pretty much to just feed 2056.

Waterloo, not GTRE .

I personally don't agree with a full out offensive team, especially when one of those robots is a FCS. When you are limited to 45 discs + floor pick-up your alliance will starve itself before the end of the match due to your FCS' ability to unload every few seconds. Instead, an "enforcer" could be used to protect the FCS from any blockers. After all, the maximum height of a FCS will always be shorter than the maximum height of a defender. Once the FCS has don't its job, the defender has the time to do its climb, preferably a climb-and-dump or just a 30.

Therefore, an alliance that could easily make Einstein is:

1. A tall full-court shooter that is relatively accurate.
2. A floor pick-up robot that can clean up any misses and shoot 7 discs in autonomous.
3. A quick climber with a drivetrain strong enough to hold up against robots trying to go through it. Preferably with dumping capabilities.

[MooreteP]

Originally Posted by ErvinI

Waterloo, not GTRE .

I personally don't agree with a full out offensive team, especially when one of those robots is a FCS. When you are limited to 45 discs + floor pick-up your alliance will starve itself before the end of the match due to your FCS' ability to unload every few seconds. Instead, an "enforcer" could be used to protect the FCS from any blockers. After all, the maximum height of a FCS will always be shorter than the maximum height of a defender. Once the FCS has don't its job, the defender has the time to do its climb, preferably a climb-and-dump or just a 30.

Therefore, an alliance that could easily make Einstein is:

1. A tall full-court shooter that is relatively accurate.
2. A floor pick-up robot that can clean up any misses and shoot 7 discs in autonomous.
3. A quick climber with a drivetrain strong enough to hold up against robots trying to go through it. Preferably with dumping capabilities.

I concur that these are the types of alliances that will show up out of half of the divisions.

It may come down to a bad cRio, a disconnected battery, or (hopefully not) the FMS.

[MichaelBick]

Originally Posted by dodar

The #1 at Alamo wasnt full offense and you cannot honestly compare Alamo to Einstein and Champs. Imagine giving 1986/1806 or 2056/1114 a capable ground pickup or FCS. Seeing as we saw the 1114/2056/FCS at GTRE, they threw up like 230. And that was just a FCS that sprayed and prayed and played pretty much to just feed 2056.

There also wasn't very much defense being played at GTRE.

[themccannman]

Awfully glad we went with a floor pick up seems to be turning out to be a very desirable attribute. After playing a match with 1662 (feeder station pick up) and scoring 131 disc points collectively with them I absolutely agree that having a feeder station/ground pick up alliance combination is a force to be reckoned with, not to mention 987 and 254 who with 2 ground pickups broke the 200 point mark several matches in a row. It seems that those strategies complement each other better than almost any other. A full court shooter has the potential to either destroy the competition or get shut down very easily without an assisting counter-defense teammate. Whether they get blocked our not will decide their matches. I also think that having two 30 point climbers on an alliance also gives a bigger advantage than people have been saying as it is at least 60 more almost-unblockable points every single match without including the potential for an additional 20 point dump. If the other alliance is all 10 point climbers they have to be leading by 60 points at the buzzer just to match the other teams score. Aside from offense I've seen some defensive teams such as 294 at CVR completely shut down the opposing offense. However, the defensive role this year can be filled very easily by any fast robot with a good driver; meaning that we will probably be seeing a couple of alliances made of 3 offensive powerhouses that have the versatility to play any role during the match.

[bardd]

I don't think any estimation we make can hold before division lists are published. You have to look at every division independantly and only then you can try and guess which robots and which types of robots can qualify.
For example, if you get a division with lots of canadians defenders have a good chance, since canadians are mostly offensive and not very good around defence (according to what I saw at waterloo and GTRW).

[akoscielski3]

I want a return of the "EH Team"

That is all.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by akoscielski3

I want a return of the "EH Team"

That is all.

2056 - Ground Pickup
1114 - Corner-to-Pyramid
4334 - FCS

...omg...it's like they planned this out...

[bardd]

Originally Posted by akoscielski3

I want a return of the "EH Team"

That is all.

To be honest, I would very much prefer it if those 3 all ended up at different divisions (if 1114 and 4334 end up together, it's fine, but no other combination).
While I loved watching them play and loved 1114 and 2056 together at their regionals this year, I think those teams together make the game un-even, even for some of the bigger powerhouses (maybe all of them, they definitely risk all the teams I saw playing), and to be honest, it's getting kind of boring. I'd rather see them pair up with other big teams, and maybe face off at Einstein.

[themccannman]

Originally Posted by akoscielski3

I want a return of the "EH Team"

That is all.

This nearly happened in Curie, if we hadn't scorched the field 2056 may have ended up with 1310, and if 4814 had lost their last qual match they could have been the third robot on that alliance, that would have been an incredible alliance.

[David8696]

Could someone tell me exactly what Einstein is?