Who is going to be on Einstein?

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by David8696

Could someone tell me exactly what Einstein is?

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...37#post1255837

[MikeZ]

Originally Posted by c.aldridge

I don't necessarily agree with that. The number 1 alliance at Alamo did not advance to finals with their full offensive team. They were composed of:
1. 1477 with a guaranteed 3 frisbee auto and tried to get the middle 4
2. 624 with a 5-7 frisbee auto
3. 457 with a 3 frisbee auto

They started the semis with 70+ pts and still lost against a quick shooter from 4063, 2789 playing defense and allowing 2468 to shoot full court. It was close, but the primarily offensive team was upset.

Also just realized you were at Alamo so you were able to see this occur.

Having the autonomous capability and performing on the field is not the same thing. Nothing is guaranteed. In the last Semi match our Alliance only had 5 discs scored in auto and lost the match by 4 points. We were getting 9-10 auto discs the previous Elim matches. Would have been nice to "start the Semis with 70+ points" but it didn't happen.

2789 gets credit for playing excellent defense and 4063 and 2468 proved they were very capable shooters. They played very well togheter and in the end made it happen on the field.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

There are a number of combination possibilities, however I think the greatest use of the Cross Court Shooter will be its ability to necessitate and draw a defender to it, allowing for more space for two fast, accurate and efficient run & gun teams.
I think the alliance that can score 15+ auto discs will have a good time. (15+?!? How is that possible? 3x3 plus 4 plus 2+ from the middle line) 90 auto points will put pretty much anyone in an insurmountable hole.

1114 and 2056 will not be in the same division this year. I can almost guarantee that.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

1114 and 2056 will not be in the same division this year. I can almost guarantee that.

No you can't. All you can say is that there is a 75% chance that they won't be.

[Pault]

Looking at the scores which are being put up at normal regional events, I think that an Einstein alliance will need to be able to put up 200-250 points consistently. This may vary depending on the level of defense played. Now, if an alliance was to put every white disk in their player station into the 3pt goal, that is only 145 points. And that rarely ever happens. So even more than many people are saying, I think that autonomous and climbing will be the difference.

So my conclusion for an Einstein Aliance:

1. A 7 disk autonomous robot which will continue to sweep the floor throughout teleop.
2. A robot who gets disks off the center line during autonomous. Ideally it would do so 987 style, but most likely it will just get 2. Also, it needs to be accustomed to running cycles in autonomous, because at championships there will not be the plenty of disks on the floor which can support 2 like good ground pickups like at regionals.
3. A consistent 3 disk autonomous robot with a good drivetrain/driver to play defense. Should also be able to hook up an 84in blocker.

Notice that I didn't mention climbing. That is because I think climbing is going to be a big variable between Einstein alliances. For now, I will just assume that there will be a 30 point climber and two 10 point climbers, and I can't tell which of the 3 robots will get the 30.

So lets add up the points:

Autonomous:
15 disks x 6 points = 90 points

Teleop:
5 cycles from the ground loader + 5 cycles from the feeder station=10 cycles
10 cycles x 4 disks=40 disks
40 disks x 3 points=120 points

Climbing:
50 points

90 + 120 + 50=260 points

Considering that things will go wrong and defense will be played, that puts this alliance right where I expect an Einstein alliance to be.

[nicholsjj]

This might be an oddball sleeper alliance, but i could see a 7 disk auton floor pickup robot along with two full court shooters taking the bill. The key to this alliance heading to Einstein would be the work of the human players. The trick to this one is that most alliances will not have two dedicated "blockers" to stop both full courts. One can be in the protected zone with the other across the field. To stop both an alliance would have to let the floor pickup bot have free reign of the field.

On a slightly similar but close enough topic. Will a below seeded 6th alliance have a greater chance at Winning Einstein due to the different amount of strategy options that this game provides?

[nicholsjj]

Originally Posted by nicholsjj

This might be an oddball sleeper alliance, but i could see a 7 disk auton floor pickup robot along with two full court shooters taking the bill. The key to this alliance heading to Einstein would be the work of the human players. The trick to this one is that most alliances will not have two dedicated "blockers" to stop both full courts. One can be in the protected zone with the other across the field. To stop both an alliance would have to let the floor pickup bot have free reign of the field.

On a slightly similar but close enough topic. Will a below seeded 6th alliance have a greater chance at Winning Einstein due to the different amount of strategy options that this game provides?

I hate being "that guy" but as I was sitting next to Allen Gregory during the finals practice matches and I saw 610 and 1241 full court shooting I just had to bring up this post. I think this was a bit "looking forward and Carnack like. "

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

I see a winning alliance at championships having three particular robots:
1)
7 Disk autonomous
Shoots fast and accurately
50 Point endgame

Not that I've seen every robot in FRC, but...who the heck does all of this? I've not heard of any robot that does both 7-auto and climb-and-dump.

[Jared Russell]

After seeing all of the "nothing but offense" posts, I can't wait to pair up with a Full Court Shooter in St. Louis!

I will dissent with the braintrust and say that at least one Einstein alliance will have a robot that plays a primarily defensive role in eliminations (albeit one that can score in auto and climb for 10+...prerequisites for playing on Saturday afternoon at CMP this year).

[Bongle]

The defensive question is easy: can you pick a robot that can consistently prevent more points than it can score?

Let's say the 3rd robot will be a 40-50pt/match robot, with 28 of those points being 3 discs + a 10pt hang that you're going to get anyway. So that means the choice between telling this robot to defend or not comes down to whether you think the robot can stop an enemy from scoring 22 points in 2 minutes, while not fouling itself. I think that's right on the limit - that's slowing someone down to the tune of 2 cycles, or blocking/delaying 7-8 shots from a FCS. You'd need good scouting about your opponent's average score rate to figure out if a defend/offend decision is working out.

If the 3rd robot is a 60-70pt/match robot, then the decision becomes much harder.

Also, points per match is another tough metric to use: if, between the other two robots, you actually score all the discs, then your 3rd robot's 60-70pt/match credentials mean nothing.

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by Bongle

The defensive question is easy: can you pick a robot that can consistently prevent more points than it can score?

If you can't block a full court 3pt shooter with one of your robots you will lose. Beyond that the rest of your post applies.

[Lil' Lavery]

A team sponsored by UTC will be on Einstein.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Peter Matteson

If you can't block a full court 3pt shooter with one of your robots you will lose. Beyond that the rest of your post applies.

'Blocking' an FCS in the traditional sense** would imply that you would even allow that FCS to get to the point where they would need to be 'blocked'...

**With a wall or similar 'tall' disc stopping thing.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

Not that I've seen every robot in FRC, but...who the heck does all of this? I've not heard of any robot that does both 7-auto and climb-and-dump.

Get to work programming, Rangel!

[Bdf809]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

Not that I've seen every robot in FRC, but...who the heck does all of this? I've not heard of any robot that does both 7-auto and climb-and-dump.

You would be correct. From what I've seen, the only robots with a 7 disk auto that can do more than a 10 pt hang are you (1986) and 254. Neither of these robots have a dumper.