[FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!

[Abhishek R]

I think the advantage 1114 has over 2056 at Champs is how unique they are. If you think about it, the number of bots with a 30 point climb that can shoot accurately and quickly is pretty limited (1114 and 254 come to mind). Several teams can do a 7 disk auto/and have an efficient enough ground pickup during tele-op (118, 254, 1477, 987). The amount of 7 disk auto bots in a division at Champs compared with climbing shooters is probably 3:1. If I had the choice, I would take 1114 any day.

[ehochstein]

This is the first time I can remember ever seeing a Minnesota team on the list (2169). Unlike most sports there are 2000+ FRC teams in the US and it is simply impossible for a single person voting to know everything about all the teams. I view FRC Top 25 as more of a popularity contest (aka who gets talked about the most) then an accurate ranking system.

[Bstep]

I'm surprised I don't see 2471 Mean Machine up there. Fantastic job in Portland and great alliance partner in Spokane. They'll give everyone a scare in St. Louis when they pull out their five disc auto for the first time. An FCS that can pick up discs off the center line in Auto is potent--especially paired with a shuttle-bot team that can pick them up off the ground under and in front of the pyramid. We'll be trying out a six disc Auto in St. Louis, so maybe 2471 and us can get together again and sweep up the floor in Auto.

[CrazyMohawk]

The Northwest might get some attention next year when we switch to the district model.

[MrJohnston]

I have a week off work and am spending it scouting.... a lot of teams. I've seen nearly every team in FIRST at this point - though am only 1/2 done scouting them....

RE: Northwest Teams
There are four or five really, really strong teams in the Pacific Northwest that would rank in the top 25 (though top ten is questionable) - if they can manage not to have mechanical problems. 2471, 1983, 360, 1318 and 948 all have very good robots, however each (except maybe 360?) has had some sort of issue at some point... It's hard to rank them that high in a subjective pole with the "issues' they've had. Consider: 1983 might be the best robot in the Northwest, but, in three competitions, have yet to take the #1 seed.

RE: Those Canadians
Yup... There are a lot of really, really good robots in Canada. Watch the videos for the Greater Toronto East Regional... 1114 and 2056 are really, really good... Really good. They might be the best two robots in FIRST.

RE: Other areas
Yes, there are areas where robots are stronger than others... There are cases where a robot plays in two regionals, in different geographic areas. At both, it peforms just about the same. However, at one it doesn't get chosen for eliminations. At the other, it's one of the top three or four bots.

One weakness of any top 25 list is that it does not account for robots with very different purposes. This is an alliance game and, to win, you need robots to do different things - just as, in football, you won't win too many games with a team full of linebackers. Some robots focus on cycling, others on picking up loose disks, some on climbing and others on distance shots. How do you compare a FCS vs. a cycling bot, for instance? Whose the better football player, the quarterback or middle linebacker?

[princessnatalie]

Mike and Justin make it clear every week that this is just for fun, and if you don't vote you cannot complain!

They take a lot of time to do their show when they are busy with school and their own teams, too. Mike & Justin already know how much I love them (despite the fact that my team has never been on their list) just because they are so passionate and entertaining week after week. So thanks guys, for being so energetic and amazing in every show (and in real life, you guys are pretty cool too ).

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by princessnatalie

Mike and Justin make it clear every week that this is just for fun, and if you don't vote you cannot complain!

They take a lot of time to do their show when they are busy with school and their own teams, too. Mike & Justin already know how much I love them (despite the fact that my team has never been on their list) just because they are so passionate and entertaining week after week. So thanks guys, for being so energetic and amazing in every show (and in real life, you guys are pretty cool too ).

This post just about sums it up.
Its for fun.

Personally, we had a great season, was #1 all 3 events, hope we never have a mishap like the one this past weekend, and most importantly had fun this season.
In looking at this poll, it does nothing for us, in terms of focusing on what we need to do, in order to be successful at CMPs and the kind of partners we need/others need that we have to offer.

There are tons of experienced scouters at CMP. I hope our team is ready to scout each and every team in our division in case we end up in the top 8.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

I have a week off work and am spending it scouting.... a lot of teams. I've seen nearly every team in FIRST at this point - though am only 1/2 done scouting them....

RE: Northwest Teams
There are four or five really, really strong teams in the Pacific Northwest that would rank in the top 25 (though top ten is questionable) - if they can manage not to have mechanical problems. 2471, 1983, 360, 1318 and 948 all have very good robots, however each (except maybe 360?) has had some sort of issue at some point... It's hard to rank them that high in a subjective pole with the "issues' they've had. Consider: 1983 might be the best robot in the Northwest, but, in three competitions, have yet to take the #1 seed.

RE: Those Canadians
Yup... There are a lot of really, really good robots in Canada. Watch the videos for the Greater Toronto East Regional... 1114 and 2056 are really, really good... Really good. They might be the best two robots in FIRST.

RE: Other areas
Yes, there are areas where robots are stronger than others... There are cases where a robot plays in two regionals, in different geographic areas. At both, it peforms just about the same. However, at one it doesn't get chosen for eliminations. At the other, it's one of the top three or four bots.

One weakness of any top 25 list is that it does not account for robots with very different purposes. This is an alliance game and, to win, you need robots to do different things - just as, in football, you won't win too many games with a team full of linebackers. Some robots focus on cycling, others on picking up loose disks, some on climbing and others on distance shots. How do you compare a FCS vs. a cycling bot, for instance? Whose the better football player, the quarterback or middle linebacker?

Neither has 1114.

[CrazyMohawk]

Originally Posted by dodar

Neither has 1114.

only because 2056 has a better auton.

[Bill_B]

The Academy Awards started out being an excuse to have a night out and hash over some insider opinions about the movie industry in tinsel town. Then the moguls got ahold of it and turned it into a "really big deal." Does the Academy do a good job of recognizing accomplishments in entertainment? Depends on where and who you are, but it is certainly a source of discussion for those who are interested.

Are Mike and Justin in the same position as the Oscars? No. Not yet? Are they one of the focal points of discussion about FIRST accomplishments? Sure. And they do hand out stickers. Are they likely to engage Price Waterhouse to monitor the balloting? Not likely. Do we care? Not me, I'm just thankful when I can remember to "tune" them in on time. Thanks, guys.

[Robotmmm]

Fun fact:

Team 11 is #21 on the Top 25 list.

Their OPR rank is also #21.

(off to see how the rest of the teams line up)

[Anupam Goli]

Mike and Justin always do a great show, there's no doubt. I always enjoy the 2 hours the show runs. Sometimes the voters show their bias in their rankings, so the rankings will never satisfy everyone. The vast majority of the FRC community doesn't participate in the vote, and an even smaller portion of the minority that DOES vote actually does their research before voting. It's easy to get frustrated at the rankings are when you do most of your research and vote. (Although I'm guilty of regional biases too).

[Robotmmm]

OK, I compared the Top 25 to their OPR ranking (not an unflawed system, but at these based on data).

Top 25---- OPR

25. 1334--- 50
24. 2169--- 8
23. 624--- 24
22. 1806--- 12
21. 11---- 21
20. 1718--- 39
19. 2590--- 18
18. 341--- 266
17. 1310--- 37
16. 111--- 29
15. 868--- 6
14. 1477--- 49
13. 359--- 16
12. 148--- 46
11. 67--- 32
10. 610--- 38
9. 1717--- 17
8. 33--- 10
7. 469--- 4
6. 987--- 3
5. 118--- 5
4. 254--- 23
3. 1986--- 7
2. 2056--- 1
1. 1114--- 2


And since this team was discussed, 1983's OPR is #95.

[ErvinI]

Originally Posted by Robotmmm

OK, I compared the Top 25 to their OPR ranking (not an unflawed system, but at these based on data).

Top 25---- OPR

25. 1334--- 50
24. 2169--- 8
23. 624--- 24
22. 1806--- 12
21. 11---- 21
20. 1718--- 39
19. 2590--- 18
18. 341--- 266
17. 1310--- 37
16. 111--- 29
15. 868--- 6
14. 1477--- 49
13. 359--- 16
12. 148--- 46
11. 67--- 32
10. 610--- 38
9. 1717--- 17
8. 33--- 10
7. 469--- 4
6. 987--- 3
5. 118--- 5
4. 254--- 23
3. 1986--- 7
2. 2056--- 1
1. 1114--- 2


And since this team was discussed, 1983's OPR is #95.

For reference's sake, here's a comparison between their Max OPR Rank and their FRCTop25 rank:

Top 25---- Max OPR Rank (Average OPR Rank)

25. 1334--- 22 (50)
24. 2169--- 19 (8)
23. 624--- 7 (24)
22. 1806--- 24 (12)
21. 11---- 46 (21)
20. 1718--- 45 (39)
19. 2590--- 9 (18)
18. 341--- 284 (266)
17. 1310--- 65 (37)
16. 111--- 21 (29)
15. 868--- 10 (6)
14. 1477--- 11 (49)
13. 359--- 18 (16)
12. 148--- 20 (46)
11. 67--- 15 (32)
10. 610--- 33 (38)
9. 1717--- 6 (17)
8. 33--- 16 (10)
7. 469--- 3 (4)
6. 987--- 4 (3)
5. 118--- 5 (5)
4. 254--- 13 (23)
3. 1986--- 8 (7)
2. 2056--- 2 (1)
1. 1114--- 1 (2)

Max OPR reference: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=65

[EricDrost]

Originally Posted by ErvinI

For reference's sake, here's a comparison between their Max OPR Rank and their FRCTop25 rank:

Top 25---- Max OPR Rank (Average OPR Rank)

1983 does quite a bit better in this regard:
1983--- 25 (95)


But that uses week five data, not week six.
Edit: My mistake, it uses week six data. I assumed it used week 5 because it was posted in the week 5 OPR thread.