All District FIRST?

[Jay O'Donnell]

Hey CD,

I've been thinking about the future of FIRST, which appears to be an all district format. What I'm not sure about is how the districts would be divided. There are some obvious areas that would be separated from others (New England, California, Canada) but some areas where the lines of division are less obvious. So what do you think all the divisions will be in the future, and what states/countries will be in each district?

Thanks! Jay

[dodar]

When FIRST gets to that critical mass point, I see it looking like this: 50 state districts, 6 Canadian Districts, 1 Mexican District, 1 Israeli District, 1 Oceanic District, and probably a few more unknown districts(atleast unkown for now).

And then you would have like a West Region Championship, Northwest Region Championship, Great Plains Region Championship, Southwest Region Championship, Great Lakes Region Championship, Mid-Atlantic Championship, Southeast Championship, Mid-America Championship(States between Southeast, Great Lakes, and Mid-Atlantic), Northeast Region Championship West Canada Region Championship, East Canada Region Championship, Oceanic Region Championship, Mexico Regional Championship, Israel Region Championship, unknown Region Champs.

Then, all those would feed into the World Champs just like hwo FiM and MAR do now. This major team growth would also make champs grow to 8 Divisions and possibly 640-720 teams total or 80-90 teams per division.

That, to me, is FIRST in like 20-30 years.

[JustinRueb1891]

This is a wonderful concept, but wouldn't be very balanced. For example, states like California, Texas or New York have a very large number of teams (and people) compared to the more rural areas of the country. This already puts big limits on certain areas (Idaho just recently surpassed the number of teams needed to host one regional, and hasn't yet been able to plan one), and would only be harder to work into a district system. States with large numbers of teams (Like Michigan, who pioneered the district system) could feasibly convert to districts in the near future, but aside from the densely populated areas of the country, I doubt we'll be seeing districts as a widespread FIRST system any time soon.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by JustinRueb1891

This is a wonderful concept, but wouldn't be very balanced. For example, states like California, Texas or New York have a very large number of teams (and people) compared to the more rural areas of the country. This already puts big limits on certain areas (Idaho just recently surpassed the number of teams needed to host one regional, and hasn't yet been able to plan one), and would only be harder to work into a district system. States with large numbers of teams (Like Michigan, who pioneered the district system) could feasibly convert to districts in the near future, but aside from the densely populated areas of the country, I doubt we'll be seeing districts as a widespread FIRST system any time soon.

Not soon, no; but when the teams per area gets to a high enough quantity it will. So, as FIRST moves toward the complete district system, some states will become left out for a little bit as more and more join the district brotherhood.

[JustinRueb1891]

Originally Posted by dodar

Not soon, no; but when the teams per area gets to a high enough quantity it will. So, as FIRST moves toward the complete district system, some states will become left out for a little bit as more and more join the district brotherhood.

When that happens (Which will be really amazing for FIRST), do you think that some states may need to be further divided, or will their Championships send more teams to Worlds?

[dodar]

Originally Posted by JustinRueb1891

When that happens (Which will be really amazing for FIRST), do you think that some states may need to be further divided, or will their Championships send more teams to Worlds?

I dont think states themselves will be parted off. I think having it states as a whole would be better. I think at first, the regions will send different amounts of teams to Worlds depending on the size of the team in the state. But after a while FIRST will have to designate a specific number across the board for each Region Championship; by that I mean an equal number for each Region.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by dodar

Not soon, no; but when the teams per area gets to a high enough quantity it will. So, as FIRST moves toward the complete district system, some states will become left out for a little bit as more and more join the district brotherhood.

Where do you think the next few district areas will be?

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Jay Money 1058

Where do you think the next few district areas will be?

Minnestoa, then California, then the Northeast, then Texas, than Northwest. After that, I have no idea. lol

[Jeffy]

Originally Posted by JustinRueb1891

This is a wonderful concept, but wouldn't be very balanced. For example, states like California, Texas or New York have a very large number of teams (and people) compared to the more rural areas of the country. This already puts big limits on certain areas (Idaho just recently surpassed the number of teams needed to host one regional, and hasn't yet been able to plan one), and would only be harder to work into a district system.

Sounds like a compromise would need to be made.

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by dodar

When FIRST gets to that critical mass point, I see it looking like this: 50 state districts, 6 Canadian Districts, 1 Mexican District, 1 Israeli District, 1 Oceanic District, and probably a few more unknown districts(atleast unkown for now).

I like your vision for growth, but I don't think we'll ever be organized quite that way. Two main reasons:
1. Take Montana. The population density makes it unlikely that they'll ever have enough teams to make a stand-alone district. But even if they do, they'll never have as many teams as Michigan or California or Ontario (or even Missouri), so the districts will be very unbalanced if organized by state & province.
2. Take Missouri. FRC teams are concentrated around Kansas City & St. Louis; this has lead to some very natural relationships/rivalries with teams in Kansas & Illinois, respectively. Teams cross the state to go to the "other" regional (expect like this year, when both GKC & STL were week 3 ) but the majority of the relationships are with the teams in the other states. It'd be nice to keep some of that.

I'm not saying us on the MO side of GKC can't, or won't, be able to recover from not seeing the KS teams, but we really wouldn't want to (I don't think, anyway; this isn't a discussion I've had with other teams in the area). However the district boundaries are drawn, they have to keep this in mind.

I don't think it's as simple as letting teams attend events in other districts; you set up a potential issue with how points are earned towards the District Championship. Maybe those rivalries just transfer to the "super district" or "regional" championships, but that just doesn't feel right to me. I don't have a good answer -- I've thought about this, but no where near enough -- but it's one of many questions that are going to have to be addressed.

[apalrd]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

I don't think it's as simple as letting teams attend events in other districts; you set up a potential issue with how points are earned towards the District Championship. Maybe those rivalries just transfer to the "super district" or "regional" championships, but that just doesn't feel right to me. I don't have a good answer -- I've thought about this, but no where near enough -- but it's one of many questions that are going to have to be addressed.

As long as all district events play the same number of matches per team, under the same game rules, there is no reason points wouldn't be able to transfer between regions.

An original intent of district events in Michigan was to open extra spots at events (after each team had registered for their 2) to outside teams, this was not allowed. Later, when MAR was formed, both sides (FiM and MAR) wanted to allow teams to go to districts in the other region, this was not allowed either. However, as MAR events are extremely similar to FiM events (same number of matches per team), there would be no reason (from the point system and rankings perspective) to prevent an FiM or MAR team from attending the other region's event and receiving points. Even if FiM and MAR used different point values in their point systems, it would be extremely easy to apply the FiM points to a MAR event for an FiM team attending a MAR event to be properly ranked in the FiM rankings (the same goes for a MAR team attending an FiM event).

[1018sophmore]

Indiana is hopefully going to the district model either this year or next gonna be interesting

[bardd]

Two problems with this theory:
Most international teams that aren't Israeli don't have the possibility to attend more than event (sometimes including the championship). Israelis usually can't compete outside except CMP, but that's less of a problem because we have our own regional.

Another problem is it'll be really hard to move Israel to districts. There aren't enough venues that can hold events of that magnitude. In fact, I can only think of two or three places, and it'll be hard to get these places to have the events (moneywise and schedulewise). In addition, Israel has about 50 teams, and for districts to have a point you'd need at-least 100 teams, and I don't believe Israel can hold that number of teams.

[Conor Ryan]

I'm one of the only people that has attended/volunteered at both a MAR and Michigan district events. There are awesome things about districts, and there is also a lot left to be desired. I also have extensive experience with off season events, which districts are actually modeled after.

1) I'm not entirely a fan of districts in the first place. I'm not a fan of the current district model.

I'm a big fan of the extra cost associated with a full regional, the bigger venues, professional Event Managers, professional AV staff, the professional grade radios, the overall show aspect, there are a lot more details that go into an event than just putting up a field and having tables for a pit. I know MAR is starting to learn this and has started purchasing more AV equipment, but that's not everything. If you leave a regional after working it for 4 days and you had a professional team with all the right resources, life is so much easier/less frustrating.

2) The amount of stress that districts put on the core volunteer group is grossly underestimated.

I think that every team participating in a district model should be required to donate a volunteer for each event they attend. Key volunteer experience and quality is... KEY, districts are getting there, but having an MC half as good as Blair or Mark is next to impossible. You are lucky in districts if you have 4 people out of the 12 key volunteers (Event Chair, Event Manager, Volunteer Coordinator, FTA, Field Supervisor, Lead Queuer, Lead Robot Inspector, Head Ref, MC, Game Announcer, Scorekeeper, Lead CSA, Pit Admin) have experience in similar roles at events greater than 3 years. It really takes about that long to become a well rounded, quality volunteer.

If you are in a potential/already district area, start volunteering! Not all of us have enough vacation days to go around!

3) There needs to be a way that international/isolated teams can interact/play.

4) Intra-district play needs to happen.

5) The super regional idea is the coolest thing in FRC's future.
It is starting to resemble the other March Madness...

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan

...I think that every team participating in a district model should be required to donate a volunteer for each event they attend...

..4) Intra-district play needs to happen...

1) I believe FiM already does this.

2) Yes, I agree.