Saving Seats Epidemic

[Jimmy Nichols]

Originally Posted by IndySam

As visitors to QC I must say that we had no problem finding seats. First we came in an 48 invited us to have a seat in their section and during the finals we sat with 1741.

This is in direct contrast to last year at Midwest where we were denied seats by a couple of well known teams until finding a home with the great folks from 71.

This year we didn't seem to have any problems. I know each morning when I surveyed the stands before the venue opened, there weren't any seat saving devices in play.

[dcarr]

Aside from literally ticketing seats, does anyone have observations or best practices from other events that involve "first come, first serve" seating? Not sure what kind of events those might be, but I think we need something better than what we have. At the same time I think it's vital that the ability for teams to sit and cheer together be maintained.

[MamaSpoldi]

Originally Posted by dcarr

Aside from literally ticketing seats, does anyone have observations or best practices from other events that involve "first come, first serve" seating? Not sure what kind of events those might be, but I think we need something better than what we have. At the same time I think it's vital that the ability for teams to sit and cheer together be maintained.

At the Granite State Regional, they had a decent sized section front and center that was set aside for the teams in the current match. I didn't find out about it until Saturday, but it seems like a good idea. Maybe the whole team (for large teams) would not fit there but at least each team could have a representation in that excellent viewing area. This idea could, for example, solve issues with those coming up from the pits to watch their team's match... and therefore seats for them would not need to be saved in the rest of the stands. Has any other regional tried this?


I also like the idea of a reserved section for scouters from each team (although 10 per team sounds excessive since there are only 6 robots on the field at a time). The issue I don't have a solution for with this is that there are 100 teams in a division at Champs which would result in 600 seats being reserved front (actually middle to back of lowest section is actually a better view for scouting) and center. If there are teams who are not using these seats then those prime seats are wasted. Maybe a registration of the number of scouting seats that you need (up to a maximum of 6-7) would work. Then seats would not be wasted.

[Maldridge422]

Originally Posted by jessss

At the Minnesota Regionals the first few rows of the center section of seats were reserved for teams. Each team got two seats for scouting, the team number was placed on each seat which was nice. It gave every team an opportunity to use the two seats to scout, record matches or even just sit and watch matches. It was nice because each team knew that they had these two seats and didn't have to worry about saving the seats. I know most teams need more than two scouters but I think it helped at our regionals.

Originally Posted by MamaSpoldi

I also like the idea of a reserved section for scouters from each team (although 10 per team sounds excessive since there are only 6 robots on the field at a time). The issue I don't have a solution for with this is that there are 100 teams in a division at Champs which would result in 600 seats being reserved front (actually middle to back of lowest section is actually a better view for scouting) and center. If there are teams who are not using these seats then those prime seats are wasted. Maybe a registration of the number of scouting seats that you need (up to a maximum of 6-7) would work. Then seats would not be wasted.

I think 2-3 seats for scouters would be very useful. It would cut down on the amount of scouting materials in the rest of the stands while only blocking off a relatively small area. Additionally, it would encourage collaborative scouting and data collection OR more innovate scouting practices. The rest of the stands would, ideally, be free of non-human objects and reserved sections.

[BrendanB]

Creating more team sections in the stands does NOT solve the problem. Designated sections for cheering are nice, but what do those teams do once their match is done? They go right back to their seats so in effect by creating these "sections" we are taking up even more seats which doesn't solve the problem.


Same thing with scouting. Some operations take 2 people, others take 8+, and some teams don't even scout.

I personally think if we are going to have sections they should be for the public/non-team members so the public can come in a feel welcomed not shuttle/pushed off to the worst seats at the arena.

[efoote868]

I'd like FIRST to create a lottery. Then assign seating as follows:

The best section of seating is reserved for VIP, such as parents with children under 10, those that aren't affiliated with a team (yet), corporate sponsors etc.

The next section of seating is divided up into blocks of 6 seats. Each day at competition, teams are randomly assigned a block of seating along with their 6 passes. Teams are then left to decided how they use their 6 seats, however they see fit. If they want the people in the pits to have them that's fine; if they want their scouts to use them that's also fine.

The last section of seating will either be randomly assigned in blocks of 25, or free for all seating depending on the venue. This sort of system should cut down on "we're saving this seat for xyz," because if xyz is that important, they'll get one of the better reserved seats.

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

I personally think if we are going to have sections they should be for the public/non-team members so the public can come in a feel welcomed not shuttle/pushed off to the worst seats at the arena.

I agree that this touches on the worst issue of seating. Lunch time on Saturday is where you see the worst of this. The majority of a a team is out eating lunch (esp. if they are not in elims) and a few team members (or those returning early) try to hold all the seats.

Now here come the public that have never seen an FRC match before. They are confronted with what appears to be lots of empty seats with coats spread out, people telling them this is reserved, so if they stay, they end up in the cheap seats. There is no need for scouting on Saturday afternoon, and FIRST is about spreading the message and inspiring others so why not honor the public with the best seats?

What if FIRST made it a practice to reserve excellent seating for the general public starting shortly after Alliance selection? Some of the public will have team connections and may wish to sit near their teams, others just read the local paper and saw there was a free robotics competition and have no team affiliation. I'm not sure how many unaffiliated public folks typically show up at a regional, I'm sure that varies widely based on many factors. -- They may not need more than 200 seats or so, and teams wouldn't be pushed back very far.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

I agree that this touches on the worst issue of seating. Lunch time on Saturday is where you see the worst of this. The majority of a a team is out eating lunch (esp. if they are not in elims) and a few team members (or those returning early) try to hold all the seats.

Now here come the public that have never seen an FRC match before. They are confronted with what appears to be lots of empty seats with coats spread out, people telling them this is reserved, so if they stay, they end up in the cheap seats. There is no need for scouting on Saturday afternoon, and FIRST is about spreading the message and inspiring others so why not honor the public with the best seats?

What if FIRST made it a practice to reserve excellent seating for the general public starting shortly after Alliance selection? Some of the public will have team connections and may wish to sit near their teams, others just read the local paper and saw there was a free robotics competition and have no team affiliation. I'm not sure how many unaffiliated public folks typically show up at a regional, I'm sure that varies widely based on many factors. -- They may not need more than 200 seats or so, and teams wouldn't be pushed back very far.

I think this is a great idea! At champs this year, they reserved an entire section for volunteers right at half field on Einstein, which was a great move. Many of the volunteers spend their entire time in the pits working with teams, and the only matches they ever see are Einstein. Now we just need to do something similar for people with no team affiliation...

[Moon2020]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I think this is a great idea! At champs this year, they reserved an entire section for volunteers right at half field on Einstein, which was a great move. Many of the volunteers spend their entire time in the pits working with teams, and the only matches they ever see are Einstein. Now we just need to do something similar for people with no team affiliation...

I am one of the Volunteers who doesn't get to watch a match until Einstein. There were members of the public sitting with us in section 127.
It is not a new concept; I remember a section being reserved for Volunteers/VIPs in Atlanta also.

[Pendulum^-1]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

Creating more team sections in the stands does NOT solve the problem. Designated sections for cheering are nice, but what do those teams do once their match is done? They go right back to their seats so in effect by creating these "sections" we are taking up even more seats which doesn't solve the problem.

After a team's match is over, they can go where ever they want to go. As most of my team spends nearly all of our time in the pit area, either working on our robot or talking to other pit crews, we would not occupy other seats in the arena. One of the prime benefits for ALL teams is to have a decent seat to go to when your team is on the field.

The purpose of the cheering section would be to make optimal use of prime seats for Friday and Saturday AM. I challenge the concept that the optimal use of prime seating on Friday and Saturday AM is to act as a laundry repository for large teams with the resources and/or perceived requirement to reserve vast tracts of prime real estate for the Saturday eliminations and/or Friday evening awards.

I agree that something should also be done to help out the general public. As the situation stands right now, whenever I do invite friends to the event, I feel obliged (and somewhat embarassed) to explain the seating situation in advance. Needless to say, it probably discourages some from attending.

[Mr.Smoky15]

Honestly, I think they should have a quick segment at kickoff about this, so no team can play a "but we didn't know" card, and then it should be the responsibility of the parents and mentors to keep students busy at competition and out of the stands, so that interested parents or sponsors can actually see the field.
This was far less an issue at the St. Louis Regional, as we have enough space for all the teams. It could be better, but Championship was terrible.

[Marc S.]

I think the GP card could go either way. Yeah your taking their seats that they are trying so hard to defend, but they are trying to save seats with almost no one there.

At SVR I talked to a rookie mentor from another team, and he mentioned to me how ungraciously professional he thought the pink team was for taking up half the stands in the center section of the stadium. "Their spirit people take up the same amount of room as the scouts from 20 other teams." he said. Its an interesting thought, 90% of their seats went to cheerers who loved to stand and block the view of people behind them, but they did get there first. I only mention the identity of this team because they ironically won the championship Gracious Professionalism award.

So it begs the question, what is more graciously professional? Is it, "we only need these higher quality seats for our scouts", or "they got their first so we should respect their right to take up as many seats as they can"?

[Mike Marandola]

I think one possibility, specifically at internationals, would be for FIRST to reserve about 6 seats for each team towards the center of the field. The rest of the seats would be first come first serve. This way every team would have a good view of the field for scouting and such. Everyone is racing to get these center seats so I think every team should be given a certain number of them.

[MrTechCenter]

Originally Posted by Marc S.

I think the GP card could go either way. Yeah your taking their seats that they are trying so hard to defend, but they are trying to save seats with almost no one there.

At SVR I talked to a rookie mentor from another team, and he mentioned to me how ungraciously professional he thought the pink team was for taking up half the stands in the center section of the stadium. "Their spirit people take up the same amount of room as the scouts from 20 other teams." he said. Its an interesting thought, 90% of their seats went to cheerers who loved to stand and block the view of people behind them, but they did get there first. I only mention the identity of this team because they ironically won the championship Gracious Professionalism award.

So it begs the question, what is more graciously professional? Is it, "we only need these higher quality seats for our scouts", or "they got their first so we should respect their right to take up as many seats as they can"?

The Pink Team, 233, won the Championship Spirit Award, not Gracious Professionalism. Not that they don't show any GP, I've talked with several of their members, including their cheerers and they are all gracious and professional.

[KevinShi3]

Another issue I saw with the seat saving rule was this year's opening ceremonies. In Archimedes a medium sized team left towels with their team icon to save their seats so that they could all watch the opening ceremonies together. Another medium sized team came over and began to take those seats while taking these towels off and placing them in the seats behind them. One poor student from that original team was left to argue with a whole team while their team was away. Since FIRST wasn't broadcasting the opening ceremonies to the other divisions what should this team have done?

They could either miss the opening ceremonies and sit their in their seats in order to "save seats with bodies" or go to opening ceremonies because this might be one of the last times some of the students there could ever see them. I feel like FIRST should have at least broadcast the opening ceremonies to the other divisions because to this day I can't seem to think of a solution to this dilemma.