Saving Seats Epidemic

[Mike Marandola]

Originally Posted by Woolly

If your average team needs ~10 people to scout, and there are 60 teams at a regional, what you end up with is 600 people redundantly recording what is mostly the same data.
If, somehow, everyone could agree on a scouting standard before they show up at the regional, you could have a representative from every team do all the scouting, and it could probably be uploaded to a neutral location on the web. Then, any fancy metrics/calculations that a team are doing just have to be set up to pull information from that neutral source.
Thus the need to sit in the bleachers and be together the whole event is alleviated for most teams.

Now, how do you get everyone to agree on a scouting standard? Well, for one the regional committee could hold a meeting 2 weeks before the event where everyone shares what data they need for scouting. It would not take much to hash out, as every year almost everyone's scouting sheets contain the same data.

That would be great idea also. We implemented something like this with team 20 at worlds and it worked out very well. I said scouting but the 6 seats could be used for any purpose.

[Koko Ed]

Unless FIRST gets directly involved and start penalizing teams for abusing the rule nothing will change.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Unless FIRST gets directly involved and start penalizing teams for abusing the rule nothing will change.

The Lone Star RD has occasionally had to take the microphone and remind teams of the rule. And threaten to stop the regional cold if teams keep breaking it. It helps, but the reminders shouldn't be necessary.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

The Lone Star RD has occasionally had to take the microphone and remind teams of the rule. And threaten to stop the regional cold if teams keep breaking it. It helps, but the reminders shouldn't be necessary.

As with the practice field, to many FIRST teams, when it comes to the need to seeing that your team's needs are met it's amazing how easily the creed of FIRST is so easily forgotten.

[BigJ]

I am a pit guy. The only time I am in the stands is usually for our matches and for opening/closing ceremonies. For most matches I even usually find the closest seats to the pits to see our autonomous mode so I can fix it or make suggestions to the kids.

I do know that the policy on 1675 is to spread out a little bit to have spaces for pit/chairman's/tour-guiding/etc people to sit for ceremonies at least. However if anyone is looking for a place to sit they are welcome to sit with us.

Even though I nag the kids they are still always bringing heavy coats/bags/etc that don't fit well with them in a stadium seat. Such is life in Wisconsin/Midwest during regional season.

This year we have been fortunate to kind of "partner up" with a friendly team through an alum who mentors our team such that seating is never really a problem except for the latest parts of the event, but in past years one problem I noticed was "encroachment". Teams spread out near us would spread out farther when our "edge" people would leave for lunch/pit/etc leaving us with not enough seats for elims/ceremonies. Heck, when we won an award at Midwest this year our team was split in 2 areas of the stands, it was a little awkward and not as exciting as shrieking with the whole team as the judge text was read.

I am with the poster suggesting "You better have half or more as many people as seats" as well as letting people looking for a seat sit wherever they want. Us brown-shirts are friendly, we don't bite. (Even if we are a little crazy).

[dubiousSwain]

Hey everyone, chronic seat saver here.

Our team has 11 students and 9 mentors. When we get to the events, there ends up being 4-5 people in the stands because the kids are working in the pits.
But when our team is up, *gasp*, our team needs 16 seats! If our 4-5 scouters don't save seats, our mentors and pit crew don't have anywhere to sit. We realize its against the rules, but we see no other way. If anyone has a solution, feel free to tell me.
Thank you

[robobuilder]

As a scout myself I have been guilty of saving seats. I realize it is frustrating to wake up at 5 to find a line of teams with 3-4 representatives trying to save seats. But they woke up even earlier than you did, while the rule the rule does say that saving seats for groups is not allowed (which my team respects) I think a possible solution is that a small group from a team should be able to acquire 'scouting passes' like media passes but instead of letting people onto the floor this would allow them into a reserved section with ideal viewing for scouting. The passes would have to be rotatable of course (not have names) but this would prevent 1 person trying to save 60 seats. Thoughts?

[Carolyn_Grace]

A simple, "We're trying to have enough space for our drivers and pit crew to sit during our matches, but you're absolutely welcome to sit with us. You'll be surrounded by people cheering like crazy and wearing [color of your team shirts]," seems to work quite well.

Saying something with a smile in good-nature generally tends to help any situation.

[Mykey]

I am sure that the majority of the people involved in First have both the knowledge of, and the ability to understand, the "do not save seats" rule. It is announced continually over the PA's, written in the rule book, posted online, and as I have heard through the many stories people are telling it directly to each other.

I understand wanting to stay together as a group. However, this is one of the times when plain old logistics force us to take a more gracious approach to a situation.

I personally would be straight up embarrassed to be sitting in a seat that had a sign on it stating "VIP Reserved" while someone was announcing that saving seats is against the rules. I am not making up the sign. We saw it at regionals.

Saving seats says "you are important" to the person it is being saved for. What message do you think everyone else is getting from you?

[Duncan Macdonald]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

A simple, "We're trying to have enough space for our drivers and pit crew to sit during our matches, but you're absolutely welcome to sit with us. You'll be surrounded by people cheering like crazy and wearing [color of your team shirts]," seems to work quite well.

Saying something with a smile in good-nature generally tends to help any situation.

Shouldn't your drivers be elsewhere?

Originally Posted by Ryan Caldwell

...
FIRST isn't well known for creating mindless sheep.
...

I'd be willing to discuss this in another thread.

[Ryan Caldwell]

I was told by a concerned mother that i was sitting in a saved seat when i was at the front edge of what was easily 50 empty seats taped off.
After explaining that the manual has a rule against saving seats and getting the oh so classic response of everyone else is doing it. I told her that she might be in the wrong place as FIRST isn't well known for creating mindless sheep. Now i'm a self admitted smartass and was pleased with the banter but I did feel a little bad after she came down to continue the argument and all I did was "Bah" at her like a sheep while watching the remainder of my teams match...

Cheers! and remember "if ya can't convince them confuse them" - HS Truman

[MrForbes]

As far as I know, our team never sat together as a team at Championships this year. I was busy running back and forth watching matches and playing with the robot in the pits, but I never had a problem finding a seat to watch matches (usually sitting with 842, 610 or 118 on Galileo).

I also noticed the many announcements in the pit about "no saving seats", but never heard that announcement in the stands, which is where the folks who need to hear it are sitting.

[Pendulum^-1]

Originally Posted by JamesSpencer

Overall I believe most people’s championship experience was a positive one but there is one issue that we still need to fix as a community. Saving Seats!

So very glad that someone (besides me) started this thread, and that so many people echoed concern about the problem. As the pit crew leader on a small team that does not practice reserved seating, I could write a huge wall of text about my experiences over the last several years. But I'd rather just focus on a proposed solution.

Proposed solution:

Event organizers would designate a two cheering sections, one for each alliance. These cheering sections would be comprised of 60-100 seats each, and would be among the very best seats in the house. Comparable to those reserved for the VIPs. (It could even be to the left and right of the VIP section.) The teams for each alliance in each match would self-organize alliance cheering squads to fill the seats. When their match ends, both entire cheering sections would vacate immediately, and the cheering squads for the alliances in the next match would fill the Red and Blue cheering sections. This cycle would continue all tournament long.

Notes:
1) It should not be much of an issue, time-wise, for people to migrate into/out of the cheering sections. Field resets take more than 5 minutes, and it takes less time than that for teams to file from the higher levels of the arena to the field and back to get their awards.

2) The energy levels in preliminaries would go up dramatically. WIth reps from three teams sitting in each alliance cheering section, and sitting near the field, these sections would be loud, indeed.

3) Students, aside from just the drive teams, would get to know and visit with their counterparts on other teams. Networking opportunities would go up A LOT.

4) Any solution would have to impose minimal requirements on the event staff. The teams themselves should be able to police this themselves, especially after a few rounds, and teams start to understand the concept better.

5) My number of 60-100 is entirely flexible. The community can figure it out over the course of several events, and come to a suitable number. I only suggest that entire rows of a section be designated, in order to facilitate entry/exit.

6) This should take some of the pressure off of teams to reserve huge sections of stands. Sure, some large tracts will still be reserved, but the situation won't be quite as contentious, as it is during the mundane qualification matches on Friday and Saturday am, when multiple rows of prime seating are laying fallow for hours, just waiting for their big team to occupy the seats during the elimination matches on Saturday afternoon.

7) It is critical that these sections be among the best seats in the house. If not, they won't be used as intended.

[Koko Ed]

The best way to get people to curb bad behavior is to hit them where it hurts.
Teams come to the competition to win awards and I bet they wouldn't act they way they do if there was a judge nearby but the judges have better things to do than babysit unruly teams.
Here's a viable solution: A few years ago at IRI they instituted a Stealth Judge (Andy Baker's brother) who hung out in the stands to see how teams behave (because most teams can the Junkyard Dog act when they see someone in a open collard blue shirt and play nice til they go away). After they go away all bets are off! If they have no idea that they are being scrutinized by an undercover judge who gets to see their bad behavior in full effect they can then inform that team that they will not be receiving any awards this weekend. I bet that'll curb their nasty attitude very quickly and hopefully for the future as well.

[Duncan Macdonald]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

The best way to get people to curb bad behavior is to hit them where it hurts.
Teams come to the competition to win awards and I bet they wouldn't act they way they do if there was a judge nearby but the judges have better things to do than babysit unruly teams.
Here's a viable solution: A few years ago at IRI they instituted a Stealth Judge (Andy Baker's brother) who hung out in the stands to see how teams behave (because most teams can the Junkyard Dog act when they see someone in a open collard blue shirt and play nice til they go away. After they go away all bets are off! If they have no idea that they are being scrutinized by an undercover judge who gets to see their bad behavior in full effect they can then inform that team that they will not be receiving any awards this weekend. I bet that'll curb their nasty attitude very quickly and hopefully for the future as well.

Yeah recognition is nice, but are we are trying to teach our kids the reason to do anything is for the awards? (This is my main issue with some teams chairmans or safety motivation already)

The implementation of this would need to be painfully blunt for most teams to understand why they weren't ever winning anything. "This award would have gone to WXYZ but they are jerks so we are giving it to ZYXW" and that would really make ZYXW feel great about themselves too.