Event Live Stream Ideas

[Nirvash]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

Paid vs free. If the channel paid for Livestream pro/premium/whatever-they-call-it, then it will embed the video itself. But if it's a free channel (which most of the FRC events that used it were) it embeds a webpage with a button that loads the channel in a new window/tab.

I was the one that implemented it in TBA. Unless I missed something, there's no way to get around it. The channels I used to test the functionality were local news stations, and it loaded the video right on the site. But once Dallas' regional (I believe) rolled around, it ended up with a message about the event being live and having to "Click Here" to actually play the event.

Very odd, one service I was a beta tester for (The now closed synchtube.com) had no issue embedding a Livestream stream of any type. We tested this extensively with free and verified channels with 1000+ users.

After that site closed the owner linked me to this as an alternative. I have been meaning to play with it since it's opensource, but looking at the test site they have, it handles livestream the same way.
Both sites are/were built off Javascript and Node.js, hopefully they can be some help.

[IKE]

So, I think what I would like to see from a Stream would be for just the wide angle live shot showing full field of the match while the match is live. Use the announcer commentary to help cover what is going on. Once the match is complete, it typically takes a couple of minutes to ensure the score is ready during which you could replay the whole match showing some detail shots and having a second announcer commenting on the specifics shown on the screen. This would act like an instant replay but for the whole match. From a cadence perspective, it would be 4:30 to 4:40 of robot action per match cycle. For a 6 minute turn, this would give a little over 1 minute for score and intros. For a 7 minute cycle, you would have a little over 2 minutes.

One of my pet peeves of the streams are where the screen does not match the announcing. It would be like hearing about a touchdown being scored with the screen focusing on watching the quarterback after the pass is thrown.

[synth3tk]

Originally Posted by Nirvash

Very odd, one service I was a beta tester for (The now closed synchtube.com) had no issue embedding a Livestream stream of any type. We tested this extensively with free and verified channels with 1000+ users.

After that site closed the owner linked me to this as an alternative. I have been meaning to play with it since it's opensource, but looking at the test site they have, it handles livestream the same way.
Both sites are/were built off Javascript and Node.js, hopefully they can be some help.

How long ago did you work with Livestream? Now that you mention it, I think you used to be able to embed any stream. The change might have happened when they switched to the "New Livestream" platform. I know for a fact that there's no way to embed free channels now. It may have been possible in the past, but I've tried many ways to do it now and it's just not possible.

EDIT: Look at the $333/month plan. https://new.livestream.com/plans#plan_comparison_table

[Nirvash]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

How long ago did you work with Livestream? Now that you mention it, I think you used to be able to embed any stream. The change might have happened when they switched to the "New Livestream" platform. I know for a fact that there's no way to embed free channels now. It may have been possible in the past, but I've tried many ways to do it now and it's just not possible.

EDIT: Look at the $333/month plan. https://new.livestream.com/plans#plan_comparison_table

Oh, I assumed we were talking about the 'old' livestream streams. Last time I checked you couldn't embed the 'new' channels.
I honestly forgot about the 'new' livestream since no one I know uses it. Especially with the fact that livestream still lets you make and use 'old' accounts.

As an example I just made a new 'old' livestream channel and ran it through the site I linked. So I guess it boils down to, as long as the guys streaming know to use an 'old' account, it shouldn't be an issue.

[synth3tk]

Originally Posted by Nirvash

Oh, I assumed we were talking about the 'old' livestream streams. Last time I checked you couldn't embed the 'new' channels.
I honestly forgot about the 'new' livestream since no one I know uses it. Especially with the fact that livestream still lets you make and use 'old' accounts.

As an example I just made a new 'old' livestream channel and ran it through the site I linked. So I guess it boils down to, as long as the guys streaming know to use an 'old' account, it shouldn't be an issue.

Ah, interesting. I was under the assumption that they had phased out the old channels, since every Livestream I've come across in the past year (including the two or three FRC events this season) were the new ones.

Guess that's something to tell the stream admins to be aware of. While I do like the new platform in general, it sucks that they put such a basic feature behind a paywall.

[Nathan4567a]

Good ideas. I like the idea of the tricaster except for the price. We have been using a similar setup to the capturecard/xsplit setup mentioned earlier. I will continue to look into the Code Red box out of curiosity. Any other ideas?

[spydan]

Originally Posted by Nathan4567a

Good ideas. I like the idea of the tricaster except for the price. We have been using a similar setup to the capturecard/xsplit setup mentioned earlier. I will continue to look into the Code Red box out of curiosity. Any other ideas?

I don't know what your budget is, but this is only $500 and is probably the cheapest professional solution available.

[runneals]

I sent a nice note into FRC Support and they said sent it onto the Marketing Dept. I figure if they spend as much money with Show Ready to produce the events with the look and feel they require, they might as well put a little more into the broadcasting of all events to ensure that it meets their quality standards since the video will be around long after the events occur. I also encouraged them to reach out to the community of people who have done this to get additional feedback as well. Here's to hoping that they do!

[runneals]

FIRST HQ listened!

Lastly, I was observing the setup of the webcast and collecting feedback from the individuals who helped run the Indiana FIRST webcasts this season. FIRST worked with Indiana FIRST this season to pilot a web streaming solution that was used to broadcast all Indiana FIRST events, including IRI, and collecting feedback on that experience is important as we evaluate the effectiveness of the pilot. We will be compiling the results of that pilot and evaluating alternatives as we continue to move towards a way to get better access to real-time and archived video of all FRC events.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by runneals

I sent a nice note into FRC Support and they said sent it onto the Marketing Dept. I figure if they spend as much money with Show Ready to produce the events with the look and feel they require, they might as well put a little more into the broadcasting of all events to ensure that it meets their quality standards since the video will be around long after the events occur. I also encouraged them to reach out to the community of people who have done this to get additional feedback as well. Here's to hoping that they do!

*looks over towards the PNW streaming crew*

[BenGuy]

Originally Posted by Nathan4567a

Does anyone have any knowledge of the equipment Code Red Robotics (team 2771) uses for the Michigan webcasts? Our team, the Discobots, helps out with many of the Texas VEX and FRC tournament live streams. We are trying to improve the efficiency of our workflow. I have heard of a "Code Red Box" that is supposedly what is used for their webcasts. Anyone know the details? Any other ideas of a better webcast solution?

In my opinion - best way to go is just using a camera plugged into a computer streaming to twitch. Twitch is by far the best service in my opinion, however, if you need multiple camera angles, ect. use XSplit

[thatprogrammer]

Originally Posted by BenGuy

In my opinion - best way to go is just using a camera plugged into a computer streaming to twitch. Twitch is by far the best service in my opinion, however, if you need multiple camera angles, ect. use XSplit

Multiple camera angles normally lower the quality of a stream. They're very rarely done right, and normally prevent you from seeing the action. Full Field view makes for a much better experience most of the time.

[Bruce Meyer]

I did several Michigan district events and the state competition with vMix. IMO, it is a very cost effective option. http://vmixhd.com.
I ran it on a simple tower PC with a 1Gb video card and an AverMedia PCI capture card (c127) and a Go Pro Hero 4. The field display was captured with a Epiphan vga2usb adapter.

For $350 vMix allows 1000 HD inputs meaning all types of media, not just cameras. DVDs, various movie file formats, audio, etc. It was very easy to have all of the various FIRST videos, event sponsor slides, etc. queued ahead of time for quick live switching.

vMix allows for up to 3 stream outputs, although this season FiM just used one (Twitch). It also allows recording to disk. If you visit the FIRST in Michigan You Tube page, the videos uploaded from vMix are Southfield, Woodhaven, Centerline, Bedford, and States. Note, earlier in the season we placed the Go Pro about 10 ft from the field. Later we placed it back 25-30ft for a better wide view with no "fisheye" effect.

For streaming providers, I've used both You Tube and Twitch. You Tube is very picky about music. The events I did in 2014 were flagged for the music in the kickoff video which I know was ok...Twitch is content blocked in most school systems. You can stream out, but some people may not be able to watch. Both were fine for quality. You need to be conservative on streaming. I think I was at 1.5Mb running 720p.

Hope this helps some people!

[evanperryg]

Originally Posted by runneals

I sent a nice note into FRC Support and they said sent it onto the Marketing Dept. I figure if they spend as much money with Show Ready to produce the events with the look and feel they require, they might as well put a little more into the broadcasting of all events to ensure that it meets their quality standards since the video will be around long after the events occur. I also encouraged them to reach out to the community of people who have done this to get additional feedback as well. Here's to hoping that they do!

This is really exciting! I've always wondered why a simple livestream kit wasn't included with the fields. When compared to the cost of the rest of the field, an extra box with a laptop, a couple cameras and one of these things couldn't be all that bad. That isn't to say it wouldn't be costly, but the benefits could vastly outweigh the costs.

[BenGuy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Meyer

vMix allows for up to 3 stream outputs, although this season FiM just used one (Twitch). It also allows recording to disk. If you visit the FIRST in Michigan You Tube page, the videos uploaded from vMix are Southfield, Woodhaven, Centerline, Bedford, and States.

For streaming providers, I've used both You Tube and Twitch. You Tube is very picky about music. The events I did in 2014 were flagged for the music in the kickoff video which I know was ok...Twitch is content blocked in most school systems. You can stream out, but some people may not be able to watch. Both were fine for quality.
Hope this helps some people!

I really wish FiM would stream to YouTube as well... As you said, Twitch is blocked in most school systems. If I'm watching at home, I prefer Twitch, I think it the best livestream platform, but it's blocked at my school. Usually I just Proxy in, but that SEVERELY degrades the quality that I can get... FiM should just stream to YouTube as well.