District Feasibility/Potential

[MARS_James]

It seems almost certain that eventually FIRST will evolve into practically everywhere using the District Model or something similar so how do you think it would work in your State/Province/Region/Country? Would you include other areas other then the obvious? Is it feasible now? If not how long do you think it would take for it to be?

So I will start with Florida:
Florida has 76 teams over 53,926.82 square miles meaning we have one team for every 709 square miles (Compared to Michigan prior to 2009 had one FRC team per 604 square miles). So according to basic math we aren't that far behind population density wise.

So If we were to have 5 District Events, Plus Championship (Same as MAR in 2012) I think they would be located in:

Miami (A large city with many teams already, and still more could develop)

Orlando (Home of the original Florida Regional, and also a lot of teams in the area)

Palm Beach County (Yes this is where my team is from but it makes sence with the selection of Miami for a district that keeping a district in Ft. Lauderdale would make them to close together, plus the 13th largest school district in the United States only has 4 teams and that is sad)

Tampa (Another largely populated area with many teams)

Tallahassee (My shot in the dark for a northern Florida district due to a lack of teams North of Ocala, Jacksonville may work better but I was trying to put another district on the west side of Florida)

Then Championship would be held in Orlando at either the UCF Arena or Orange County Convention Center
(Attached is a map of the state with the location of each team and a black x for the districts)

Other Areas to include:
I feel we would include Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic in our district if they would like.

Feasibility

It is not feasible right now but I think once we reach 90 or so teams we could do it but we don't even have enough teams to fill up the two regionals we have now but, with current growth we might have Florida District by 2015/16

[dodar]

I think it would be better to wait till like 150 teams and have 10 districts(2 per week with one "week off" or 2 weeks with only one district) and a FSC. You could do: Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Melbourne, Boca Raton, Tallahassee, Orlando, Gainesville/Ocala, Fort Lauderdale and Daytona. That would be 3 in North Florida, 3 in South Florida, and 4 in Central Florida; then you would have the FSC in the UCF Arena or OCCC or Amway Arena.

I personally would prefer the UCF Arena because its tradition, perfect setting, perfect size, and you know what you get at UCF. OCCC would be weird because its a convention center only and it would be entirely bleacher seating. I dont know about the entire size of the Amway Arena(where the Orlando magic and Orlando Predators play) to know if it could fit 60-70 teams and pits. I think this could possibly happen closer to the year 2020 but maybe a little earlier around 2017-2018.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by dodar

I think it would be better to wait till like 150 teams and have 10 districts(2 per week with one "week off" or 2 weeks with only one district) and a FSC. You could do: Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Melbourne, Boca Raton, Tallahassee, Orlando, Gainesville/Ocala, Fort Lauderdale and Daytona. That would be 3 in North Florida, 3 in South Florida, and 4 in Central Florida; then you would have the FSC in the UCF Arena or OCCC or Amway Arena.

The thought of 10 events in a state that seems barely able to muster enough volunteers for 2 regionals is exhausting to me. People don't seem to understand one of the big issues with districts is mustering enough volunteers to staff the events.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

The thought of 10 events in a state that seems barely able to muster enough volunteers for 2 regionals is exhausting to me. People don't seem to understand one of the big issues with districts is mustering enough volunteers to staff the events.

Thats because you are thinking about 10 events off the knowledge of volunteer availability now. In 6-7 years and around 2x the number of teams, I could easily see enough people to run 10 districts.

[MrTechCenter]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

The thought of 10 events in a state that seems barely able to muster enough volunteers for 2 regionals is exhausting to me. People don't seem to understand one of the big issues with districts is mustering enough volunteers to staff the events.

And you don't need as many volunteers for a district event as you do for a regional.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by MrTechCenter

And you don't need as many volunteers for a district event as you do for a regional.

Let's break down the positions:

Judges - still need a full complement
Inspectors - same number
Refs - Same
Field Reset - Same
Queuers - Same
Misc Crowd Control - Same



So, what positions don't we need?

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Let's break down the positions:

Judges - still need a full complement
Inspectors - same number
Refs - Same
Field Reset - Same
Queuers - Same
Misc Crowd Control - Same



So, what positions don't we need?

You need the same # of inspectors for 35-40 teams as you do for 60-65? And isnt querers like only 2-4 people?(not including the admin desk people)

Give me your estimate of what it would take to run 2 districts; volunteer # wise.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by dodar

You need the same # of inspectors for 35-40 teams as you do for 60-65? And isnt querers like only 2-4 people?(not including the admin desk people)

Give me your estimate of what it would take to run 2 districts; volunteer # wise.

Regionals give you a full day to inspect all the teams. Districts substantially less. And, given that many of the teams in Florida have had me rebuilding their robots late into Friday...

These are the numbers Rich Sisk and I worked up to see how big FiM would have to be for every school district in Michigan to have a team. This was done in 2010 but the core part is still the same. (Spoiler, it gets ridiculous)

It takes 6 inspectors per event.

It takes 1 head ref, 1 LRI, 1 FTA, and 1 Judge Coordinator per event.

It takes 20-25 Judges per event. (This number cannot be reduced substantially without drastically reducing quality of judging)

It takes between 4 and 6 refs

I don't have solid numbers for queuers or pit staff, nor did I include the 2 scorekeepers, the various AV folks... and I'm fairly certain I'm forgetting some group. So, let's assume somewhere north of 60 people per event.

[AGPapa]

Originally Posted by dodar

Give me your estimate of what it would take to run 2 districts; volunteer # wise.

According to this http://www.midatlanticrobotics.com/b...3-june-3-2013/ MAR had around 400 volunteers in 2013 for its seven events. That's about 57 volunteers per event. However, many volunteers go to multiple events. So the real number is probably much higher.

Even with 400 people some MAR events were really struggling for volunteers. TCNJ only had about 3 inspectors and was running pretty late because of it. They got a scorekeeper only a week or two before the event.

You need a lot of volunteers to run districts.

[rachelholladay]

As I understood it, the volunteer issue was one the reason Texas hasn't gone district, yet. (and geography.)

[Boe]

Volunteers are also what is stopping Minnesota

[Ilovepineapples]

So it sounds like volunteers are a real issue for regions switching to districts.

What are some ways FiM and MAR have solved this?

What are PNW and NE doing to solve this issue?

Should teams for multiple areas be taking this on as an issue to find a solution with their local Volunteer Coordinator?

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Regionals give you a full day to inspect all the teams. Districts substantially less. And, given that many of the teams in Florida have had me rebuilding their robots late into Friday...

These are the numbers Rich Sisk and I worked up to see how big FiM would have to be for every school district in Michigan to have a team. This was done in 2010 but the core part is still the same. (Spoiler, it gets ridiculous)

It takes 6 inspectors per event.

It takes 1 head ref, 1 LRI, 1 FTA, and 1 Judge Coordinator per event.

It takes 20-25 Judges per event. (This number cannot be reduced substantially without drastically reducing quality of judging)

It takes between 4 and 6 refs

I don't have solid numbers for queuers or pit staff, nor did I include the 2 scorekeepers, the various AV folks... and I'm fairly certain I'm forgetting some group. So, let's assume somewhere north of 60 people per event.

To run Beantown Blitz (a 1 day off-season event with ~40 teams) we pull in 55-60 volunteers. This does not include personnel like safety advisors, inspectors or a the full gambit of judges (we use a smaller staff of 10-12 for our 1 day event).

A volunteer staff for a district event is not all that different from a regional staff. In fact, the reason Beantown needs so many volunteers is that we are running many aspects that are often 'venue-handled' at a regional (concession stands, security, parking, facilities, etc). This is a very important aspect to consider as well.

-Brando

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

To run Beantown Blitz (a 1 day off-season event with ~40 teams) we pull in 55-60 volunteers. This does not include personnel like safety advisors, inspectors or a the full gambit of judges (we use a smaller staff of 10-12 for our 1 day event).

I was doing the math on it earlier, and that's on the low end of what I was figuring for a regional. Replace your concession, parking, facilities, and possibly security people with inspectors and enough judges to make up a full complement, come out about even. Maybe a couple of other folks.

I then figured that about half of those would return if the second district was close enough, and guesstimated about 90-100 individual volunteers for 2 district events.

Fall Classic (1 day, 20 or so teams) pulled 15-20 volunteers or so (not counting concessions and facility staff) to run the event, and that many again for both setup and teardown. 45 people total, with about 5-10 doing setup, teardown, and the event in between, over a day and an evening. (Last year's numbers, BTW, off the top of my head, give or take a fudge factor of 5 in any given section of the event).

[mdituri]

Originally Posted by MrTechCenter

And you don't need as many volunteers for a district event as you do for a regional.

At MAR, on the first day (after school/evening) we need to feed 65 volunteers. On days two and three (the full days) we need to feed 100 - 110 volunteers. We need the same number of volunteers for a district event as for the region championship event. We simply have people volunteering at multiple events; thank goodness for the amazing MAR volunteers.

The big problem came in 2012 when we went to districts. We had enough volunteers, but we impacted NYC Regional significantly. The individuals that volunteered at NYC as their second regional ended up volunteering at MAR districts and we basically stole a decent portion of their volunteer base. This didn't happen on purpose, and we didn't realize how many individuals volunteered at NYC from MAR until the month before NYC when they were still looking for a large group of volunteers.