The Future of FIRST Competition Video Streaming

[JohnFogarty]

I think I'll just leave this here...

http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/04/y...with-100-subs/

What do you think?

[Joe G.]

IRI was done this way. The stream got taken down due to copyrighted music.

[JohnFogarty]

I had no idea that they were that bad about the music in the streaming department....considering the millions of videos on YouTube with songs from artists and I'm sure the artists don't want their music there.

[connor.worley]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

I had no idea that they were that bad about the music in the streaming department....considering the millions of videos on YouTube with songs from artists and I'm sure the artists don't want their music there.

The identification system catches a lot of it and applies ads / region blocking / etc. Twitch.tv is still a good streaming platform imo. One upfront ad and then no more.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by connor.worley

The identification system catches a lot of it and applies ads / region blocking / etc. Twitch.tv is still a good streaming platform imo. One upfront ad and then no more.

I don't see why Twitch isn't used more often for FRC webcasts...it's basically the standard for eSports and I've never had a problem with it...it also has a decent mobile app for streaming.

[JohnFogarty]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

I don't see why Twitch isn't used more often for FRC webcasts...it's basically the standard for eSports and I've never had a problem with it...it also has a decent mobile app for streaming.

As does UStream...I've actually never seen as Twitch.TV webstream approach the quality of the Canadian UStream events that I watched this past season.

[bduddy]

I think that using Twitch.tv more would be a great idea, if only to target the demographic of people that are already watching video game streams and might be interested in FIRST...

[BigJ]

Twitch was more focused towards video games in the beginning, but has been opened up into more live events like Magic: the Gathering (card game) tournaments and charity marathons that are based more on the live portion than the video games.

A competition like FIRST might be something really cool in Twitch's eyes. They might even be up for some front-paging or newsletter promotion if a bunch of the live-streamers that use Twitch got together and talked to them about it.

[coalhot]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

As does UStream...I've actually never seen as Twitch.TV webstream approach the quality of the Canadian UStream events that I watched this past season.

I doubt the stream quality has to do with the service you're using. I've watched plenty of Starcraft 2 tournaments on Twitch at full HD. I have a feeling it's just that the Canadian webcasters have better hardware and better internet connections at the events.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by coalhot

I doubt the stream quality has to do with the service you're using. I've watched plenty of Starcraft 2 tournaments on Twitch at full HD. I have a feeling it's just that the Canadian webcasters have better hardware and better internet connections at the events.

The Canadian webcasters (WatchFIRSTNow, @bochek on here), have some seriously nice hardware. They also have a Premium UStream account paid for by FIRST Robotics Canada. That's why none of the Canadian Regionals had ads on their webcasts at all.

At the events? I can tell you for sure at ONTO (Oshawa) that they were using the University's network, which runs at about 35Mbps up/down. They were streaming 720p.

ONTO2 is the worst of the bunch. For some reason, they've had real trouble getting a functional internet connection at the Hershey Centre for years.

[synth3tk]

I don't feel like cherry-picking quotes, but there are some good points in this thread.

The quality of the stream is up to the person/organization doing the streaming. I've seen some amazing Twitch streams, and I've seen some low-quality ones that makes you constantly check if it's really set to 720p+.

Keep in mind that while the music at events are licensed for playing in the arena, they probably don't have a license for streaming said music. YouTube is notorious for taking down videos in a heartbeat over the slightest hint of copyrighted material. That's going to pose major problems if FIRST events want to use their service. The hassle required just to prove to YT that you do have permission to stream music (if you actually do) is not worth it, IMHO. I personally recommend staying away from it unless your channel somehow gets the all-clear for all the necessary music licenses.

I think the future of FIRST streaming lies not in the platform, but the hardware and connection. That's probably our #1 issue right now. Most streams are still displaying at 4:3 480p 500kbps. It's 2013. No matter how amazing an event may be, if I can't make out which robots are doing what on the field, then we've got work to do.

I know most venues may not be able to easily upgrade their lines, but that's really the only option in terms of internet. Hotspots are hit-or-miss. The speeds may be mediocre, the coverage spotty, you may have a bandwidth cap, etc.

We also need better cameras and hardware. Having a static field cam on top of a driver station is OK, but not when it's the only view available.

Audio levels need to be managed/normalized. Nothing more jarring than hearing an announcer announcing at a somewhat low level, and then BUUUZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!! right in your headphones.

Before we look to adding yet another platform to segregate the community, we need to improve the quality going to the servers.

[Nathan4567a]

What's with the minimum of 100 subscribers? I don't like that part. I think I'll stick with twitch tv

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by Nathan4567a

What's with the minimum of 100 subscribers? I don't like that part. I think I'll stick with twitch tv

If they let just anyone do it I'm not sure they'd have the bandwidth for all of it. (Disclaimer: bandwidth may not be the correct term)

[dag0620]

When I first heard about this, I got really excited that we might finally see a solution to the FIRST webcast issues we've been facing.

However looking at some of the specs right now, I don't think we've found the ultimate solution. I think Ustream will still leading the pack for the next couple seasons, even with all of it's flaws. Also keep in mind the stream qualities would often not improve on YouTube as typically the limiting factor on these streams is the bandwidth of internet at the event venue, not Ustream's servers.

Needless to say, it will be interesting to see whether my predictions are right, and where competition webcasts go. I feel we're definitely on the verge of seeing some major changes in this area soon, it's just a question of what those changes will be, and what the FIRST community comes up with.

[coalhot]

After using webcasts a lot more this year, I have to say that the preferred streaming system (at least for me) is TwitchTv. As was mentioned above, there's only one ad that you have to watch at the beginning of the stream, and it seems to interface much more nicely into the TBA Gameday setup (that may just be me though).