Poor Dean's Homework 2013 Turnout

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Maybe most of us would rather build robots than make videos. While making videos is a lot easier than it used to be, it still requires a specific skill set to do well, and you can only be good at a limited number of things.

So if your team has a group of students that passionately wants to TELL the FIRST story, go for it. But don't get disappointed with teams that are busy BEING the FIRST story for not being storytellers too.

Then I think you are missing a large part of what it means to be on a FIRST team. IMHO.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

Wow, I see a whole lot of excuses here. It's a two minute video. Most everyone has a video camera in their pocket right now. There are various free video editing software suites for educational use. Even if you don't meet during the summer, there were 3 months from Sept to now to get something together.


If it wasn't a priority, that's fine, but don't blame FIRST or Dean if you didn't get your homework done. Blame yourself.

Personally, I don't want to submit something that's half-heartedly done. If I do something, it should have quite a bit of effort in it. So a two minute video taken with a phone with impromptu planning is not exactly something I would call "done with effort."

What happens is you have about 20 or so "core" students who do a majority of the items the team does (not true for all teams, but several that I know of this usually happens). Once the school-year starts, we get back into the robotics mood, and then we worry about things like website, recruiting members, several PR events, among the students' other extra-curricular commitments.

Because there is an endless queue of things with immediate consequences, Dean's Homework I'm sure kept getting pushed back in that line repeatedly because there were no immediate benefits or consequences to completing it.

I don't think anyone was saying FIRST or Dean was to blame.

[XaulZan11]

To go along with the themes of 'this is no reward or carrot for teams', Rockwell is offering $10,000 in grants for a 60 second video. Even with this a big potential reward and only a 60 second video, the deadline was extended due to a lack of entries.

I think the biggest issue is teams not knowing about these opportunities and most teams just don't meet during the summer/fall.

There is still a week to submit: http://www.rockwellautomation.com/ro...ur-future.page

[Libby K]

1923 did not get to finish ours by the deadline. We barely have students meeting consistently before Nov 1, let alone the time to dedicate to video production for it. (We're not going to submit something hastily thrown together; if it represents FIRST, it's got to be good.)

I think if this deadline was extended to later in the year (December), or even 'By the next Championship' - since that's when the next homework is given out, we could have made a pretty great submission.

Why?

Anything you capture for your team's media over the year could be usable here. However, where are most of your video/media resources going? Chairman's. If you film the stuff you put into Chairman's, then you can repurpose it for the homework video. Similar content, different end result.

This also could have been promoted better within the community, as well as by FIRST. One email against the hundreds that people can get per day, is going to be ignored -- they announced it on the social media pages for FIRST, but not everyone in the community follows those. Our own little CD community could have talked about it more.

But you know what we could do, since we're all so disappointed? Make a video anyway. Perhaps FIRST could extend the deadline. Maybe the submission folder will stay open.

Who cares if it's 'for the homework assignment' or not?! Use it as practice for your media students, before the kickoff. If you don't have any media students/mentors, see if teams around you do and can help you. You'll need it for Chairman's anyway later.

I think the best thing FIRST could do to drive submissions would be to extend the deadline, at least until Kickoff -- and the best thing the community could do is to keep reminding each other of the homework challenge, until all the teams we're friends with have submitted. It's not hard to make a two minute video; it's slightly harder to make a well-produced two minute video, but in very few cases is it actually going to be impossible for a team.

1923 will be putting ours out when it's done, regardless of whether the deadline is extended. It's about promoting FIRST to our community & beyond, not about getting a gold-star on Dean's Homework.

My honest response to seeing this thread:

"Wait there was homework?"

I pay attention to FIRST every day, and I don't remember hearing about this project at all. Maybe it's just me, but a bunch of people I've just asked didn't know about it either, and it would have been a fun and amazing opportunity to help spread FIRST. If it was only majorly discussed at championships, then the majority of teams aren't hearing about it, and the occasional chief delphi post about it doesn't really help get the information out there.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by Andrew Lawrence

My honest response to seeing this thread:

"Wait there was homework?"

I pay attention to FIRST every day, and I don't remember hearing about this project at all. Maybe it's just me, but a bunch of people I've just asked didn't know about it either, and it would have been a fun and amazing opportunity to help spread FIRST. If it was only majorly discussed at championships, then the majority of teams aren't hearing about it, and the occasional chief delphi post about it doesn't really help get the information out there.

You're a veteran. There's always homework. I think the assumption made by FIRST here is that teams will go and seek out Dean's Homework, and that's just plain not the case.

That gets me thinking...

My memory isn't perfect after 20 years of events, but wasn't Dean's Homework previously assigned during Kickoff and not the Championship? (Many years ago). If a team doesn't watch kickoff, then there's really something wrong.

Why not have the yearly homework put out in Dean's speech there, rather than at the CMP? That way everyone sees it.

[BJT]

1. Things we need to do
2. Things we should do
3. Things we could do

Middle of list 2 is a good year. Deans homework is not in list 2.

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

To pull something liek this off, you'd have to probably be a large team of 70 or more students where a dedicated video subteam can justifiably form and not fold into an operations/outreach/media subteam, you'd have to meet all year, you'd have to have the available equipment, prior b-roll footage, people available to interview, and time on top of everything everyone does inside and outside of robotics the rest of the year,

Don't you think this is a little extreme? Around 40 teams were able to send in a robot unveil video for the top 25 premier 3 days after ship day, and over 100 were made at some point last season.

That said, I really hope FIRST utilizes some of the awesome unveil videos that are already being produced. Who wouldn't be interested after seeing one of 118's videos? Maybe the next homework assignment should be to make a robot unveil video.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

Don't you think this is a little extreme? Around 40 teams were able to send in a robot unveil video for the top 25 premier 3 days after ship day, and over 100 were made at some point last season.

That said, I really hope FIRST utilizes some of the awesome unveil videos that are already being produced. Who wouldn't be interested after seeing one of 118's videos? Maybe the next homework assignment should be to make a robot unveil video.

Robot reveals are
a) not always FIRST quality submissions (truthfully, I'd say fewer than 5% are)
b) "made themselves" because everyone builds a robot and puts it on some kind of field at some point in time
c) not outreach events. This video required a worthwhile non-robot activity, and outreach footage requires an outreach activity worth documenting, properly documenting the event, and having enough footage from the event to create a submission FIRST-quality
d)made during a time where students are not taking AP exams, state exams, and finals, prepping for graduation, and teams are not changing the guard in leadership and starting to fund for their next cycle.

I don't know about your team, but whenever I've been on a team making a submission for something, you put the award submission/robot/chairman's video/judges handout/etc. through a battery of criticism and scrutiny. Keep in mind that these are things that we should be doing and try to do properly every year. This is different than an ideal target but not one without any pitfalls associated with not doing it. Sure it's something that, if I was on a team, I would want them to do it, but teams easily can find other priorities that range from recruiting to funding their next season, or those priorities become problems that find them.

To document whatever cool thing you're doing, you would need not only the people actually heading up the activity/event/thing to follow through on the plan, you need to have people there almost specifically to properly document it. Then if you have these standards in place for all other FIRST submissions, you put through the ringer, all over the summer.

Say I'm making excuses (I don't know who for, I am not actively associated with a team), say I'm totally off base, but, well...

Just like the ancient trifecta of worn-out debates on Chief Delphi ("mentor-built" robots, adults as coaches, and building a second robot for practice) these are all totally optional things that teams have the luxury of choosing to forgo if they wish, or are backed into a corner by a dearth of the resources necessary to even consider any of these decisions (low mentor availability, low revenue), and I'm pretty sure we've all resolved to reach a loose consensus of "Whatever you do in your team is your business."

Yet here, we have seen even more extreme debate over an even smaller issue. I guess you could call that the status quo here, I guess you could say ignorance is a two-way street, and I guess everyone could talk in circles for weeks on end about how their position is superior empirically, morally, and Dean Kamen himself came down from Mt. Sinai to preach the exact words you speak... but at the end of the day, whatever you do on your team is your business. I'm confident FIRST will still be here tomorrow even though few teams did their Dean's List homework. Teams will still be out in their community and in their build spaces.

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Also, just because it's been bothering me, all I have to say about this

And out of 3,800 Jr. FLL Teams, none submitted an entry. 0%.

is this:

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Also, just because it's been bothering me, all I have to say about this

is this:

It bugs you that elementary schoolers aren't making YouTube videos? 6-9 year olds aren't old enough to agree to YouTube's Terms of Service.

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I think wilsonmw04 has a point. We're supposed to be changing culture, no? You can't change culture by quietly building a robot in the corner. Everyone has some aspect of their team that they can promote / "make loud", even if all the team does is build a robot.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

It bugs you that elementary schoolers aren't making YouTube videos? 6-9 year olds aren't old enough to agree to YouTube's Terms of Service.

I can't believe that 6-9 year olds not making a video is actually considered a problem worth mentioning, in part for what you mentioned.

[Hallry]

While I don't appreciate the subtle hostility that I have sensed towards a few posts in this thread, I want to thank everyone for their honesty in their responses. I'm glad to see that many teams used the time for more rewarding 'big-picture' projects, yet also wish that FIRST advertised the homework more so that teams who would have been interested would have been aware of it.

However, if your team did make a video but were too late on submitting it, it seems like the 'deadline' wasn't final. One team's new video entry appeared in the Box.com submission folder last night, and another one only a few hours ago today.

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

It bugs you that elementary schoolers aren't making YouTube videos? 6-9 year olds aren't old enough to agree to YouTube's Terms of Service.

That's what parents and mentors are for. The team makes the video, somebody old enough who's affiliated (a mentor preferably) uploads it, as the team's work. Just saying.

[Pault]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

That's what parents and mentors are for. The team makes the video, somebody old enough who's affiliated (a mentor preferably) uploads it, as the team's work. Just saying.

I'm don't think he meant that Jr. FLL teams couldn't make the video literally because the students are to young sign the TOS. The point is: how exactly do you expect a group of 6-9 year olds to make a video? Their parents signed them up to build robots with Legos, not get interviewed on film.

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by Pault

I'm don't think he meant that Jr. FLL teams couldn't make the video literally because the students are to young sign the TOS. The point is: how exactly do you expect a group of 6-9 year olds to make a video? Their parents signed them up to build robots with Legos, not get interviewed on film.

Last I checked Jr. FLL wasn't "Lego Robots Club". If anything, the Lego part is, while a requirement, secondary. It's about Researching and finding a solution to a problem and then presenting the solution; the Lego part helps illistrate the solution as part of the presentation. I don't see how presenting on camera is that far off of what Jr. FLL already does.

I wouldn't expect the videos to be the next blockbuster, but to say that making a video isn't in the scope of Jr. FLL is IMHO shortsighted.

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That said, having spent 4 years as an FRC student, I know all about time management and the like... I also know it's possible and doable to make time management work. To those that did get videos done: Well done, keep it up. To those that didn't, hopefully your team got something else productive done, and if not, try again and try harder. Any progress is progress, the more the merrier.