FRC Blog -2014 Administrative Manual Sections 1-5 and Something New

[rwkling1]

Originally Posted by dag0620

Frank Blogged:

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...-Something-New



I'm excited that teams now have the options to take robots out of the bag for demonstration purposes.

At the end it talks about Tom Baker. After seeing that, I did some research, it may mean nothing to you, and I might be wrong, but somewhere it said it was the 50th anniversary for Dr. Who. With the 2009 Lunacy being an anniversary and 2011 Logomotion both being anniversaries, Dr. Who could be quite a big game hint, or have something to do with it. Tom Baker was the 4th doctor in the late 70's, I'm not sure what all these typos (2013 instead of 2014 and 3013 instead of 2013), but with the reference to Tom Baker, it seems like something has to do with time, whether it just means the match is longer or shorter, or if there's something specific in Tom Bakers' episode of Dr. Who with him being a museum curator. Also, on wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Doctor_Who It talks in the end of the 2nd paragraph about Tom Baker, that they wanted to remind the people that he wasn't human.... and didn't have human characteristics.. Along with that, it also says Under the control of_____. I thought this was an interesting coincidence, probably doesn't mean anything though

[Pault]

Let's try to keep the game hint discussion out of this thread, and in this one. I don't want any valuable discussion about the administrative manual to get lost in waves of game hint speculation.

[Billfred]

I like this change, especially as a rookie team but also in the rip-out-the-cRIO era. This ensures teams have a robot to show more or less year-round when it's needed. (I recall a time that Dean came to South Carolina for a fundraising dinner years ago. He spoke with teams in the afternoon probably a week after ship day. He asked "Where are the robots?!" and I replied "We shipped 'em all!")

Will some folks stretch it? Probably. Could they stretch it without this rule? Certainly.

But if an event is big enough to break the robot out of the bag, hopefully teams will be recording and photographing anyway. It's hard to say "Redateam totally had driver practice!" when the video from the school board meeting shows them teaching the superintendent how to drive it.

[DampRobot]

First of all, I think that this is very cool. I'm always a little bummed that between build season and competition season seems to be the only time anyone ever hears about robotics, but coincidentally is the only time when they can't see the robot. I'm excited that we might be able to have a pre-competition demo at school or for our sponsors.

Second, as Chris pointed out, this opens up a lot of opportunity for cheating, especially inadvertent cheating. With Bag n' Tag, cutting the tag and taking the robot out is a very clear violation of the rules, and while it may be self-policed, it's very clear when its being violated. Allowing teams to unbag for demos within the rules brings in much more of a grey area. Is changing the bumpers working on the robot? Is plugging in the battery? Is plugging in unplugged motors? Is downloading code a violation? How about new code? It's not clear, and it's pretty easy to convince yourself that whatever you're doing with the time isn't cheating. This certainly should be covered in more detail in the Q and A.

One thing people haven't mentioned is that this could be one small step on the path to eliminating Bag n' Tag entirely.

[M. Lillis]

Originally Posted by rwkling1

Along with that, it also says Under the control of_____. I thought this was an interesting coincidence, probably doesn't mean anything though

If you look up Philip Hinchcliffe's Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Hinchcliffe ) his first work on Doctor Who was on a story called Robot, he also worked on The Ark in Space a year later. I find that very interesting, but I will let everyone else work it out.

Other notable works of his that caught my eye: Total Eclipse, Pyramids of Mars, and Target

[rwkling1]

Originally Posted by M. Lillis

If you look up Philip Hinchcliffe's Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Hinchcliffe ) his first work on Doctor Who was on a story called Robot, he also worked on The Ark in Space a year later. I find that very interesting, but I will let everyone else work it out.

Other notable works of his that caught my eye: Total Eclipse, Pyramids of Mars, and Target

The ARK in space - water game confirmed

[M. Lillis]

Originally Posted by rwkling1

The ARK in space - water game confirmed

You have to design you robot to look like a boat. Also, all field elements are regolith to simulate space.

[wilsonmw04]

regolith??? Lunacy field :-)

[Jon Stratis]

People seem to be trying to look at ways teams can "bend" this "new" rule.

First, as Frank indicated, this isn't really a new rule... all you had to do in the past was contact FIRST and ask for an exemption. They'd send you an e-mail basically saying "Yes, you can unbag for such and such an event. Record it in your B&T form, lock it up at the end, and show this e-mail to your inspector." So this is nothing new, it just wasn't very widely known.

As for bending it... please, lets stop trying to lawyer things here. The intent is pretty clear. No working on the robot when demoing it. Yes, you can plug in batteries. Yes, you can attach your bumpers if you need to. I would even say you can download code, if it's needed for the demo (but specifically NOT to test new code). But if a "reasonably astute observer" looks at you and thinks you're working on the robot, then you're doing something wrong. When thinking of a reasonably astute observer, just imagine Big Al standing in the crowd, and only do what he would allow you to.

Trust me, all of you pointing out these "cheating" edge cases don't want FIRST releasing a version of the rules specific enough to satisfy you. Can you imagine how it would go? There's no possible way for them to come up with a comprehensive enough set of rules without causing issues for some teams. Imagine if they stated something like "You may not utilize any tools on the robot while it's unbagged". Well, what if you need to attach bumpers to avoid putting holes in the wall of your primary sponsor's main lounge? What if you have a clasp holding your battery in place that needs to be unbolted just to get a new battery in place? Just use some common sense, and worry about your team, not what other people may inadvertently do.

[GaryVoshol]

Saturday was the 50th anniversary of Dr Who.

On that date, "Team Tardis" competed in the Bloomfield Bash FLL qualifying tournament.

[frank.pendzich]

That's fine for bag and tag teams. We have to ship our robot the day the build season ends for it to get to our first regional event in time. We have to build a practice bot or we go without practice. We do display our prototype for fundraising, but I must say that the temptation to "cheat" is more likely driven by an act of disparation rather than a effort to do well in competition. We only have 6 weeks... and 6 weeks is not enough time. Never was. You know as well as I do that things happen in those last hours of assembly and testing. We've never put a finished product in the crate. It just seems like the bag and tagger's have an advantage over those who ship.