Announcing the 2013 December Design Competition

[Whippet]

Originally Posted by Andrew Lawrence

Yes, stacks may not be supported by robots or anything else (this includes alliance walls and railings). They can be close, but cannot be supported by them.

So if my robot is contacting my stack at the end of the match, the score isn't counted?

Originally Posted by Whippet

So if my robot is contacting my stack at the end of the match, the score isn't counted?

Nope. If your stack touches anything other than the floor of the field, it gets no points.

[cadandcookies]

Do stacks have to be completely isolated from other objects? IE, if I have a structure such that a bunch of blocks are on top of each other but one block (its location inconsequential to the overall structural integrity of the stack) happens to be touching a wall, is the entire stack invalidated? I'm fairly sure the answer is yes, but just a small clarification.

Also, awesome job to the crew that put this together. You guys are part of what makes the FIRST community and CD so awesome. Hopefully I'll be able to carve out enough time for a submission...

Originally Posted by cadandcookies

Do stacks have to be completely isolated from other objects? IE, if I have a structure such that a bunch of blocks are on top of each other but one block (its location inconsequential to the overall structural integrity of the stack) happens to be touching a wall, is the entire stack invalidated? I'm fairly sure the answer is yes, but just a small clarification.

Also, awesome job to the crew that put this together. You guys are part of what makes the FIRST community and CD so awesome. Hopefully I'll be able to carve out enough time for a submission...

Thanks a bunch! We really appreciate the compliments, and thank you and everyone else for participating in this!

To answer your question, if you're stacking near a wall, and one of the blocks barely touches the wall, you'll probably be fine. The rule was made because we didn't want people purposely stacking against the wall or another object for back support, or "accidentally" stacking so that a few or more of their blocks touch and receive support. Remember this is just a design challenge. It's unlikely the game will actually be played (though I'd love to play it).

[nathannfm]

For the first time in history asking for rule clarification on CD will get you an official response.

So "must stay within 18 inches of the frame perimeter" meaning you can have 2 extensions in opposite directions at the same time and still be legal?

Also, how (and by whom) will the designs be judged? On clever innovative ways of accomplishing the challenge, the robot that the judges think is most likely to win with a competent driver, or the skill/detail of the CAD work?

Is there a specific purpose to the overpass that I am missing? Can you stack on top of it?

There is no benefit to creating a stack in a tank, right, it just has to be in there?

And why is there no score for stacks in auton?

How much of the CAD has to be your own work, I assume there will be no penalty for downloading the CAD of a CIM but what about a custom gearbox or an entire drivetrain (credit given of course) so that you can focus on designing a mechanism. (not that I would do that, but it should be stated for the rules) (Also, you may want to put a link to this thread in the rules as the official Q&A)

Thanks for making this guys, I will be sure to show it to the MOE Design team and may just participate myself.

Edit: Thought of one more, If you are able to create a stack where only one block is touching the ground but there is more than one block per "layer" would that be legal for all the blocks? (Sorry if i'm lawyering)

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by nathannfm

Also, how (and by whom) will the designs be judged? On clever innovative ways of accomplishing the challenge, the robot that the judges think is most likely to win with a competent driver, or the skill/detail of the CAD work?

Personally, I'd treat it as an exercise to develop effective ways of describing your design/process. Being as this is a fictional exercise perhaps discuss methods for evaluation that WOULD be use. Assume you are talking to judges about various awards and work from that perspective. Might even be a cool chance to collaborate with your awards/judges team.

[BBray_T1296]

Is climbing into the tank legal? huehuehue

Originally Posted by nathannfm

For the first time in history asking for rule clarification on CD will get you an official response.

So "must stay within 18 inches of the frame perimeter" meaning you can have 2 extensions in opposite directions at the same time and still be legal?

Also, how (and by whom) will the designs be judged? On clever innovative ways of accomplishing the challenge, the robot that the judges think is most likely to win with a competent driver, or the skill/detail of the CAD work?

Is there a specific purpose to the overpass that I am missing? Can you stack on top of it?

There is no benefit to creating a stack in a tank, right, it just has to be in there?

And why is there no score for stacks in auton?

How much of the CAD has to be your own work, I assume there will be no penalty for downloading the CAD of a CIM but what about a custom gearbox or an entire drivetrain (credit given of course) so that you can focus on designing a mechanism. (not that I would do that, but it should be stated for the rules) (Also, you may want to put a link to this thread in the rules as the official Q&A)

Thanks for making this guys, I will be sure to show it to the MOE Design team and may just participate myself.

To answer your questions in order:

1) There is no limit to the amount of extensions, just how far they are from the frame perimeter.

2) The designs and strategies will be judged by a secret panel of judges who will score the designs based on how they approach the game, what they try and accomplish, how well their design is capable of accomplishing it, what the strategy is, and how well the design plays to the strategy.

3) The main objective we had in mind for the overpass was to limit maneuverability based on robot height. If your robot cannot fit under the overpass, the only way to get to the other side of the field is to go through the other area, which isn't too wide, and greatly limits the number of paths your robot can take. Sort of like how being short allowed you to drive under the pyramid this year. You can stack on it all you want. It's not going to get you any points.

4) You do not get more points from stacking in tanks than you do anywhere else.

5) Stacks do not score in auton because they are scored at the end of the game. There is also a chance they can be knocked over during the round. It would be like hanging on the pyramid in auton this year, then climbing off during teleop and ending the match off the pyramid. No use in scoring until after the round ends.

6) Your design can be all COTS for all we care. Just like normal competition. We want to see your approach to the game, and how effective it could potentially be.

Hope this helps, and I'll definitely put the link to this thread in the Manual, thank you for the tip!

Originally Posted by BBray_T1296

Is climbing into the tank legal? huehuehue

I know it's not specifically stated in the rules, but I'm gonna say no on this one. I'll let it fall under the "general FIRST rules" part of the manual. Would FIRST allow you to stuff your robot into the frisbee goals in Ultimate Ascent?

That's what I thought.

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by orangemoore

Is there a max # of crates that can be held?

Careful with this. I thought that we could also look into hoarding crates, but each one is ~8.88 lbs. Simply carrying three would mean trying to manipulate ~26.7 lbs.

- Sunny G.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

Careful with this. I thought that we could also look into hoarding crates, but each one is ~8.88 lbs. Simply carrying three would mean trying to manipulate ~26.7 lbs.

- Sunny G.

Check out 2005

[MichaelBick]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

Careful with this. I thought that we could also look into hoarding crates, but each one is ~8.88 lbs. Simply carrying three would mean trying to manipulate ~26.7 lbs.

- Sunny G.

Even with 1 crate, on shelves you are holding 9 lbs 9ft in the air, which is just awful for your CG. With the new perimeter rules(shorter robot) I would guess that it would be really easy for robots to tip over.

[Whippet]

What are the rules on crossing the center line during autonomous to collect crates?

Originally Posted by Whippet

What are the rules on crossing the center line during autonomous to collect crates?

There are no rules. Go nuts. Just remember to follow the height rules per side.

[DampRobot]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Check out 2005

What was 2005 like?

(I mean in terms of the engineering challenges. I know teams had to manipulate large tetras.)