OCCRA
Go to Post No email, no telephone, no FIRST. I can't wait.... - RoboMom [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > Robot Showcase
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 10:38 AM
tag_groff's Avatar
tag_groff tag_groff is offline
(Alumni Mentor)
FRC #4265
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Oak Ridge TN
Posts: 23
tag_groff is an unknown quantity at this point
4265's Off Season Octanum

Team 4265 The Secret City Wildbots is proud to present our off-season drive train that we are calling Dragonfly. It is a custom machined octanum drive using Vex Pro 6" mecanums, and 4"x2" Colsons, with 4 vex pro ball shifters.
Specs include:
21ft/s High gear.
10ft/s Low gear.
4 Cims + 4 Mini Cims = 6.66 Cims worth of power.
In low gear it puts out 94 foot pounds of torque.
fully loaded it weighs in at about 80lbs.

According to FIRST Regulation, we are happy, and proud to release our design include CAD and Software under the GPL for any and all to use.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/63jokadpwthhmzc/Dragonfly.zip

Release Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_vv...Q&noredirect=1
Pictures:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...it?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...it?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...it?usp=sharing

-Tag

Last edited by tag_groff : 01-02-2014 at 10:48 AM.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 10:45 AM
Jay O'Donnell's Avatar
Jay O'Donnell Jay O'Donnell is offline
Division by Pirates
FRC #0229 (Division by Zero)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Potsdam, NY/Londonderry, NH
Posts: 1,497
Jay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

As cool as it is, 80 pounds? That only leaves you with 40 pounds for all of your manipulators. I don't see the point in any drive train being that heavy (at least you'll have a low center of gravity). I would love to see this used in a competition but you're going to have a tough time with that weight limit.
__________________
Student on Team 1058 (2012-2015)
Mentor on Team 229 (2016-Present)
Writer for Blue Alliance Blog
FRC Intern (Summer 2017)
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 11:00 AM
Akash Rastogi's Avatar
Akash Rastogi Akash Rastogi is offline
Gunning for Blue in 2018
AKA: Porkchop Sandwiches
FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Manchester, Connecticut
Posts: 7,196
Akash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell View Post
As cool as it is, 80 pounds? That only leaves you with 40 pounds for all of your manipulators. I don't see the point in any drive train being that heavy (at least you'll have a low center of gravity). I would love to see this used in a competition but you're going to have a tough time with that weight limit.
There's a bunch of weight that can be dropped in terms of motors/gearboxes, if needed, that I already mentioned to Tag and his team. Plus, there are now smaller mecanum wheels available which weren't revealed when this was being designed. That could help reduce the reductions needed as well.

I trust they know what they're doing
__________________
Jim Zondag is my spirit animal.
['17-'xx]: Mentor FRC 2170
['16-'16]: Floating Mentor FRC 228
['13-'14]: Floating Mentor FRC 11/FRC 2495
['11-'13]: Founding Mentor FRC 3929 - 2012 World Championship Rookie Inspiration Award
['07-'10]: Student/Captain FRC 11 - MORT
['08-'12]: Founder - EWCP (OG)
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 11:01 AM
tag_groff's Avatar
tag_groff tag_groff is offline
(Alumni Mentor)
FRC #4265
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Oak Ridge TN
Posts: 23
tag_groff is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell View Post
As cool as it is, 80 pounds? That only leaves you with 40 pounds for all of your manipulators. I don't see the point in any drive train being that heavy (at least you'll have a low center of gravity). I would love to see this used in a competition but you're going to have a tough time with that weight limit.
In our current working version, It weighs 80lbs. in the release design, we have cut back a little bit in order to save weight. We are also looking into using alternative materials.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 11:03 AM
thefro526's Avatar
thefro526 thefro526 is offline
Mentor for Hire.
AKA: Dustin Benedict
no team (Unaffiliated)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,602
thefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to thefro526 Send a message via MSN to thefro526
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

This is really, really well done, good job. All of these octocanums popping up is really making me rethink my dislike of mecanum wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell View Post
As cool as it is, 80 pounds? That only leaves you with 40 pounds for all of your manipulators. I don't see the point in any drive train being that heavy (at least you'll have a low center of gravity). I would love to see this used in a competition but you're going to have a tough time with that weight limit.
I think you're over thinking that 80 pound weight. If you look closely, they have a total of (8) CIM Motors going through (4) Ball shifters. All of those components together (Cim motor @2.8lbs ea, Ball Shifter @2.5lbs ea) weigh just under 35lbs. I also wouldn't be surprised if the battery is included in that 80lb figure too.

Just for reference, if this drive were only running (4) CIM Motors, each through their own Vexpro Single Speed, it'd be ~16lbs lighter, and that's not counting all of the other components that could be removed when the motor count drops from (8) to (4). (Speed controllers, wiring, etc)
__________________
-Dustin Benedict
2005-2012 - Student & Mentor FRC 816
2012-2014 - Technical Mentor, 2014 Drive Coach FRC 341
Current - No Team
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 11:10 AM
tag_groff's Avatar
tag_groff tag_groff is offline
(Alumni Mentor)
FRC #4265
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Oak Ridge TN
Posts: 23
tag_groff is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefro526 View Post
This is really, really well done, good job. All of these octocanums popping up is really making me rethink my dislike of mecanum wheels.



I think you're over thinking that 80 pound weight. If you look closely, they have a total of (8) CIM Motors going through (4) Ball shifters. All of those components together (Cim motor @2.8lbs ea, Ball Shifter @2.5lbs ea) weigh just under 35lbs. I also wouldn't be surprised if the battery is included in that 80lb figure too.

Just for reference, if this drive were only running (4) CIM Motors, each through their own Vexpro Single Speed, it'd be ~16lbs lighter, and that's not counting all of the other components that could be removed when the motor count drops from (8) to (4). (Speed controllers, wiring, etc)
No that weight is without battery. We just reweighed, and it comes in at 78.6lbs. Also like I said we have modified the design to lighten the metal chassis frame to about 10lbs.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 11:19 AM
Electronica1's Avatar
Electronica1 Electronica1 is offline
Former Design and CAD Captain 1086
AKA: Alexander Kaplan
FRC #0401 (Copperhead Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Glen Allen
Posts: 374
Electronica1 has a reputation beyond reputeElectronica1 has a reputation beyond reputeElectronica1 has a reputation beyond reputeElectronica1 has a reputation beyond reputeElectronica1 has a reputation beyond reputeElectronica1 has a reputation beyond reputeElectronica1 has a reputation beyond reputeElectronica1 has a reputation beyond reputeElectronica1 has a reputation beyond reputeElectronica1 has a reputation beyond reputeElectronica1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

This is pretty cool. One thing you need to look at on saturday is if the game calls for a extra high speed/high performance drivetrain. I can only name a few games where it would be worth such a high performance drive (2008 comes to mind). If not I would try to get it to around 40-50 lbs with electronics so you have weight for your scoring system. Also does anyone have any experience with that many motors on the drive since I would think you would pop your main breaker pretty quick.

Another random question, was that a DJI Phantom in the robot video?
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 11:22 AM
tag_groff's Avatar
tag_groff tag_groff is offline
(Alumni Mentor)
FRC #4265
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Oak Ridge TN
Posts: 23
tag_groff is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronica1 View Post
This is pretty cool. One thing you need to look at on saturday is if the game calls for a extra high speed/high performance drivetrain. I can only name a few games where it would be worth such a high performance drive (2008 comes to mind). If not I would try to get it to around 40-50 lbs with electronics so you have weight for your scoring system. Also does anyone have any experience with that many motors on the drive since I would think you would pop your main breaker pretty quick.

Another random question, was that a DJI Phantom in the robot video?
That weight is with the entire system save for the manipulator, including all electricals and pneumatics. As far as the number of motors, we have been running it alot, and we haven't had any trouble with current draw.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 11:27 AM
wilsonmw04's Avatar
wilsonmw04 wilsonmw04 is offline
Coach
FRC #1086 (Blue Cheese)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Midlothian, VA
Posts: 1,972
wilsonmw04 has a reputation beyond reputewilsonmw04 has a reputation beyond reputewilsonmw04 has a reputation beyond reputewilsonmw04 has a reputation beyond reputewilsonmw04 has a reputation beyond reputewilsonmw04 has a reputation beyond reputewilsonmw04 has a reputation beyond reputewilsonmw04 has a reputation beyond reputewilsonmw04 has a reputation beyond reputewilsonmw04 has a reputation beyond reputewilsonmw04 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

what regulations are you talking about in terms of your CAD and software? I'm Curious.
__________________
Currently: Coach FRC 1086/FTC 93
2006-2011 Coach FRC 2106/FTC 35
If you come to a FRC event to see a robot competition, you are missing the point.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 11:46 AM
JamesCH95's Avatar
JamesCH95 JamesCH95 is offline
Hardcore Dork
AKA: JCH
FRC #0095 (The Grasshoppers)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Enfield, NH
Posts: 2,168
JamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

Very cool.

Have you considered using a single air cylinder on each side with a linkage to move the drive mechanisms up and down? If properly designed you could potentially use a single smaller, lighter, cylinder on each side.
__________________
Theory is a nice place, I'd like to go there one day, I hear everything works there.

Maturity is knowing you were an idiot, common sense is trying to not be an idiot, wisdom is knowing that you will still be an idiot.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 11:58 AM
geomapguy's Avatar
geomapguy geomapguy is offline
Centenary '18
AKA: Graham Maxwell
FRC #1818
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Alexandria, LA
Posts: 535
geomapguy has much to be proud ofgeomapguy has much to be proud ofgeomapguy has much to be proud ofgeomapguy has much to be proud ofgeomapguy has much to be proud ofgeomapguy has much to be proud ofgeomapguy has much to be proud ofgeomapguy has much to be proud ofgeomapguy has much to be proud ofgeomapguy has much to be proud of
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsonmw04 View Post
what regulations are you talking about in terms of your CAD and software? I'm Curious.
Last year's stuff with fabrication schedule and such

page 10 here
http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default..._The_Robot.pdf
__________________
The Cowboys - FIRST Robotics Team #1818 2015-
The Bolton Bear Bots - FIRST Robotics Team #3666 2011-204 (30-26-0)
2014 Oklahoma Regional - 20/62 (6-4-0), 5/62 in OPR
2014 Arkansas Regional - 14/39 (8-7-0, Quarterfinalists with 1706 and 1939), 24/39 in OPR
2013 Lone Star Regional Dean's List Finalist!
2013 Lone Star Regional - 22/57 (6-5-0), 17/57 in OPR
2012 Bayou Regional - 16/49 (6-5-0)
2011 Dallas Regional - 10/52 (4-2-5, #6 Alliance Captain, Quarterfinalists with 2948 and 3350)
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 01:02 PM
Nemo's Avatar
Nemo Nemo is offline
Team 967 Mentor
AKA: Dan Niemitalo
FRC #0967 (Iron Lions)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 822
Nemo has a reputation beyond reputeNemo has a reputation beyond reputeNemo has a reputation beyond reputeNemo has a reputation beyond reputeNemo has a reputation beyond reputeNemo has a reputation beyond reputeNemo has a reputation beyond reputeNemo has a reputation beyond reputeNemo has a reputation beyond reputeNemo has a reputation beyond reputeNemo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

That's a pretty serious drive base! I guess the offseason is the perfect time to max out a drive train for a team that has that itch.

You've listed just two speeds. Is the gearing from the 6" to 4" wheels setup to keep the two types of wheels at the same speed? If not, then you really have a four speed drive.

In my mind, one of the benefits of octocanum is that you don't need shifters. It's already providing the benefits of a two speed if you gear the Colson wheels slower than the mecanums.
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 01:37 PM
Dad1279 Dad1279 is offline
Registered User
FRC #1279 (Cold Fusion)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 511
Dad1279 has much to be proud ofDad1279 has much to be proud ofDad1279 has much to be proud ofDad1279 has much to be proud ofDad1279 has much to be proud ofDad1279 has much to be proud ofDad1279 has much to be proud ofDad1279 has much to be proud ofDad1279 has much to be proud of
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
....
In my mind, one of the benefits of octocanum is that you don't need shifters. It's already providing the benefits of a two speed if you gear the Colson wheels slower than the mecanums.
That is also what 1279 found in 2011(Logo Motion) with a reduction to the traction wheels, and 4 Cims+4 775s, our drivetrain had tremendous pushing power. 'Low gear' was traction wheels down, high speed was on mecanums.

We also hinged on the traction wheels like you did, for strength, but put the traction wheels at the extreme front and rear for better stance when pushing. With the 8 motors and gear reduction, we had no problem turning on carpeting, even with conveyor traction belting on wheels.

Very nice Cad work and machining. Is the cylinder mount a cast part or machined?

Last edited by Dad1279 : 01-02-2014 at 01:41 PM.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 01:56 PM
tag_groff's Avatar
tag_groff tag_groff is offline
(Alumni Mentor)
FRC #4265
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Oak Ridge TN
Posts: 23
tag_groff is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad1279 View Post
That is also what 1279 found in 2011(Logo Motion) with a reduction to the traction wheels, and 4 Cims+4 775s, our drivetrain had tremendous pushing power. 'Low gear' was traction wheels down, high speed was on mecanums.

We also hinged on the traction wheels like you did, for strength, but put the traction wheels at the extreme front and rear for better stance when pushing. With the 8 motors and gear reduction, we had no problem turning on carpeting, even with conveyor traction belting on wheels.

Very nice Cad work and machining. Is the cylinder mount a cast part or machined?
Thank you. The cylinder support was a machined block
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 01:58 PM
tag_groff's Avatar
tag_groff tag_groff is offline
(Alumni Mentor)
FRC #4265
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Oak Ridge TN
Posts: 23
tag_groff is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 4265's Off Season Octanum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
That's a pretty serious drive base! I guess the offseason is the perfect time to max out a drive train for a team that has that itch.

You've listed just two speeds. Is the gearing from the 6" to 4" wheels setup to keep the two types of wheels at the same speed? If not, then you really have a four speed drive.

In my mind, one of the benefits of octocanum is that you don't need shifters. It's already providing the benefits of a two speed if you gear the Colson wheels slower than the mecanums.
the way that it is geared, the traction and mecanums are 1:1. but if you factor in the efficiency loss with the mecanums, the slightly larger radius makes that up, making the speeds of both modes about equal. The advantage shifters give, is that we have all the pushing power in low, but in high we can still go 21 ft/s in traction.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:46 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi