Is throwing worth it ?

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Thanks for the quick answer. I read that rule at least twice and somehow never got that interpretation.

[roush14r]

I'm fairly new with FIRST but I feel like if it is worth for one robot to be throwing per alliance. Beyond that, I think that it become a little excessive and not necessarily worth it.

[TheMadCADer]

Originally Posted by roush14r

I'm fairly new with FIRST but I feel like if it is worth for one robot to be throwing per alliance. Beyond that, I think that it become a little excessive and not necessarily worth it.

If you want "full" 60 point cycles, you will need to throw over the truss and shoot into the high goal. To be the most time-efficient you can be, each robot should ideally only possess the ball in one zone. This would make an "ideal" match flow as follows:

Robot A receives ball from human player in Red Zone.
Robot A launches ball over truss to catching Robot B in White Zone.
Robot B somehow gets ball to Robot C.
Robot C launches ball through High Goal while in Blue Zone.

However, if you replace the High Goal with a Low Goal in that last step, you only lose out on 9 points per cycle.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by TheMadCADer

If you want "full" 60 point cycles, you will need to throw over the truss and shoot into the high goal. To be the most time-efficient you can be, each robot should ideally only possess the ball in one zone. This would make an "ideal" match flow as follows:

Robot A receives ball from human player in Red Zone.
Robot A launches ball over truss to catching Robot B in White Zone.
Robot B somehow gets ball to Robot C.
Robot C launches ball through High Goal while in Blue Zone.

However, if you replace the High Goal with a Low Goal in that last step, you only lose out on 9 points per cycle.

If you already have a method of launching over the truss, why would you not shoot for the high goal anyways? Just have Robot A launch, then go down to the other end of the field for a pass from C to launch into the goal?

[TheMadCADer]

Originally Posted by CalTran

If you already have a method of launching over the truss, why would you not shoot for the high goal anyways? Just have Robot A launch, then go down to the other end of the field for a pass from C to launch into the goal?

It simply takes too long.

Robot C then needs to possess the ball and deliver it back to Robot A. Robot A also has to wait around for the B --> C exchange and can't play defense in the Red Zone, which means they also aren't there to pick up the new ball as soon as it comes into play.

Instead, you could keep Robot A in the Red Zone playing defense while Robot C brings the ball to the Low Goal (instead of to Robot A). Robot A plays defense instead of driving back and forth, picking up the ball, and lining up for a shot.

The only time I'd say the high goal is better is if there is heavy defense on both Low Goals.

[Alan2338]

Originally Posted by TheMadCADer

If you want "full" 60 point cycles, you will need to throw over the truss and shoot into the high goal. To be the most time-efficient you can be, each robot should ideally only possess the ball in one zone. This would make an "ideal" match flow as follows:

Robot A receives ball from human player in Red Zone.
Robot A launches ball over truss to catching Robot B in White Zone.
Robot B somehow gets ball to Robot C.
Robot C launches ball through High Goal while in Blue Zone.

However, if you replace the High Goal with a Low Goal in that last step, you only lose out on 9 points per cycle.

The way i see it, the fastest and highest scoring way is to do this:

Robot A receives ball from human player in Red Zone.
Robot A passes ball to waiting Robot B in White Zone (before the truss).
Robot B throws/lobs the ball over the truss
Robot C reacquires thrown ball
Robot C shoots/throws ball into high goal.

I just think maybe a thrower should be in the white, and not the red. Just my thoughts...
P.S. I might think this just because I don't believe catching is going to be a big deal...

[TheMadCADer]

Originally Posted by Alan2338

P.S. I might think this just because I don't believe catching is going to be a big deal...

Catch points aren't going to change many matches by themselves. However, it actually saves you time in the long run. Tossing the ball over the truss will send it bouncing the rest of the way across the field for the next robot to chase down if you don't catch it. If you do catch it then you can go right ahead and spit it out for that final assist or shoot quickly if you're the last robot in the line.

I see catching as a way to make what is essentially a really, really good pickup that also scores you bonus points.

[Donut]

Originally Posted by TheMadCADer

Catch points aren't going to change many matches by themselves. However, it actually saves you time in the long run. Tossing the ball over the truss will send it bouncing the rest of the way across the field for the next robot to chase down if you don't catch it. If you do catch it then you can go right ahead and spit it out for that final assist or shoot quickly if you're the last robot in the line.

I see catching as a way to make what is essentially a really, really good pickup that also scores you bonus points.

I have the same thoughts. I don't think catches will be common, but if a pair of robots can successfully pull off a truss throw/catch move, it gets a +30 point bonus in a single move (truss points, catch points, and at least a 2 assist) and is very hard to defend against. If the ball is high in the air traveling between the two robots there is no chance to block the ball during travel, and if you can't knock either robot out of position during the throw there's no way to defend it.

[G-Hence]

Well time is an issue, but how much time is another thing. The rules don't really specify possession in time but rather control so theoretically, you could control the ball for lets say 2 seconds and you have the ball stopped and ready to assist given that you intake stops the ball quickly.

[marissa1215]

I think that even though it may be harder the ball into the higher goal, it still is worth it considering the amount of points you can get, with a ratio of 1:10, when there is a good amount of time on the clock it is better to just risk the higher shot and make more points, but rolling the ball into the lower goal is ideal for when the score are neck and neck and you only need 2 or 3 points to win.

[Koko Ed]

The best teams never ask "Is it worth doing?"
They ask "What's worth the most points and how can we do it?"
That's why they are always playing deep into Saturday @ Champs all the time.

[loyal]

Throwing the ball is way faster. Forget the 3 assist. Take the 2 assist, over the truss, catch if you can, if not no worries. Gain control and sink the high goal. That when done correctly will be the quickest and most efficient scoring. Imo

[Celia]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

The best teams never ask "Is it worth doing?"
They ask "What's worth the most points and how can we do it?"
That's why they are always playing deep into Saturday @ Champs all the time.

This ^^^

When we start brainstorming, we make a prioritized list of what we want our robot to do. High goal/truss shooting is worth ten points. Having a shooter means getting nine - or nineteen - more points per cycle rather than going for the low goal with no truss pass. Even if only one or two assists are managed, the shooting robot comes out on top. A well-designed robot should be able to efficiently harvest and shoot the game piece in nearly the same amount of time it takes another to herd the ball into the low goal. In autonomous, the point values speak for themselves.

Another positive to throwing: Let's say your alliance partners are unable to assist (broken down, goalie, etc.). Theoretically, couldn't one throwing robot cycle the field on its own, throwing over the truss and score in the high goal by itself? Earning twenty points per cycle with one robot doesn't seem half bad.

[MrForbes]

I think the important question here is, when will the High Rollers break a wall clock this year?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raZdkGxq5Ig

[JB987]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

I think the important question here is, when will the High Rollers break a wall clock this year?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raZdkGxq5Ig

What makes you think we haven't already, Jim? We almost did worse...launched ball so hard it knocked off control boards from shelf at driver station wall in our shop. Turns out the joysticks are pretty durable.