Go to Post Don't date anyone on your team unless you are POSITVE that you will be able to handle yourself professionally, not only during your relationship, but even after it ends. - Jaine Perotti [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2014, 21:34
xForceDee's Avatar
xForceDee xForceDee is offline
Registered User
AKA: Bart Kerfeld
FRC #4239 (Warpspeed)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 58
xForceDee is a splendid one to beholdxForceDee is a splendid one to beholdxForceDee is a splendid one to beholdxForceDee is a splendid one to beholdxForceDee is a splendid one to beholdxForceDee is a splendid one to behold
Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

Currently I am thinking of possibly trying to punch the balls with a pneumatic cylinder. In the past, FIRST has put restrictions on things such as bore size and shaft length of the cylinder (at least I am pretty sure). I can't seem to find any rules regarding this in the rules however in the current manual. Could someone please stop me before I put a 10 inch bore diameter piston on my robot.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2014, 21:37
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is online now
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 5,951
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

Used to be you could only use a few specific sizes....that rule went away several years ago.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2014, 21:43
xForceDee's Avatar
xForceDee xForceDee is offline
Registered User
AKA: Bart Kerfeld
FRC #4239 (Warpspeed)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 58
xForceDee is a splendid one to beholdxForceDee is a splendid one to beholdxForceDee is a splendid one to beholdxForceDee is a splendid one to beholdxForceDee is a splendid one to beholdxForceDee is a splendid one to behold
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

So just to be 100% clear, there is no restriction on bore diameter or shaft length?
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2014, 21:48
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is online now
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 5,951
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

If you don't see a restriction, it's because there isn't one.

keep in mind how much air the compressor can pump....I guess they figured out you don't need to be limited in size, because nature takes care of it.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2014, 21:53
ksafin's Avatar
ksafin ksafin is offline
Registered User
AKA: Kirill Safin
FRC #3992 (Eagles Robotics Xperience)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Delray Beach, FL
Posts: 498
ksafin has a brilliant futureksafin has a brilliant futureksafin has a brilliant futureksafin has a brilliant futureksafin has a brilliant futureksafin has a brilliant futureksafin has a brilliant futureksafin has a brilliant futureksafin has a brilliant futureksafin has a brilliant futureksafin has a brilliant future
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

The biggest change to this year is no Cv restriction on solenoids. This used to be pretty low, limiting airflow and making some things impractical. This year you can have a pretty high Cv solenoid allowing high airflow and making pneumatics more practical.
__________________
FTC Teams 5257, 6568 & FRC Team 3992
Eagles Robotics Xperience
2014 FTC WORLD CHAMPIONS
14 Trophies in 3 Years
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2014, 22:43
Owen Makin Owen Makin is offline
Registered User
FRC #1972
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: CUHS El Centro
Posts: 50
Owen Makin is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksafin View Post
The biggest change to this year is no Cv restriction on solenoids. This used to be pretty low, limiting airflow and making some things impractical. This year you can have a pretty high Cv solenoid allowing high airflow and making pneumatics more practical.
Can you please quote the rule, i could not find that change in the rule book. Thank you.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2014, 22:46
CalTran's Avatar
CalTran CalTran is offline
Missouri S&T Senior
FRC #2410 (BV CAPS Metal Mustang Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 2,369
CalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

There was no rule restricting the CV on solenoids, so that would be why you can't find it. Therefor, any CV solenoid less than $400 is fair game.
__________________
Team 2410 thinks KISSing is amazing! Keep It Super Safe!
  • "You know you've been in robotics too long when you start talking to your tools." "Well, you've been in robotics CLEARLY too long when they start talking back"
  • Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but you don't know why. On our team, theory and practice comes together - nothing works and nobody knows why.
MMR 2410 Student (2010 - 2013) | MMR 2410 Mentor (2013 - Present)
FTC Game Announcer / EmCee (2014 - Present) | FRC EmCee (2015 - Present) | FRC Referee (2016)
Academic Student (Forever)
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2014, 22:47
Steven Donow Steven Donow is offline
Registered User
AKA: Scooby
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,335
Steven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Makin View Post
Can you please quote the rule, i could not find that change in the rule book. Thank you.
There is no rule-and that's the change. If you read the 2013 manual, it's letter C of R78:

Quote:
C. Solenoid valves with a maximum 1/8 in. NPT port diameter, and a maximum Cv of 0.32,
That's from the 2013 manual, whereas R77 (the comparable entry in this year's manual) this year states:

Quote:
Solenoid valves with a maximum 1/8 in. NPT port diameter,
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2014, 22:47
IndySam's Avatar
IndySam IndySam is offline
Registered User
FRC #0829 (Digital Goats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Indy
Posts: 3,347
IndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Makin View Post
Can you please quote the rule, i could not find that change in the rule book. Thank you.
There is no rule limiting CV. You can't quote a rule that doesn't exists.

4.10.4 R77
C. Solenoid valves with a maximum 1/8 in. NPT port diameter,
E. Additional pneumatic tubing, with a maximum 0.160 in. inside diameter, functionally equivalent to that provided
in the KOP,


These will be the limitations on flow so don't expect to fill a 2" cylinder quickly.
__________________
"Champions are champions not because they do anything extraordinary but because they do the ordinary things better than anyone else." —Chuck Knoll


2015 Indianapolis District Winner
2014 Boilermaker Regional Industrial Design Award
2013 Smoky Mountain Regional Industrial Design Award
2012 Boilermaker Engineering Excellence Award
2010 Boilermaker Rockwell Innovation in Control Award.
2009 Buckeye J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2009 Boilermaker J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2008 Boilermaker J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2007 St Louis Regional Winners
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2014, 23:57
cmwilson13's Avatar
cmwilson13 cmwilson13 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Christopher Wilson
FRC #1771 (N. G. R.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: buford GA
Posts: 89
cmwilson13 has a spectacular aura aboutcmwilson13 has a spectacular aura aboutcmwilson13 has a spectacular aura about
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

theirs no limit to the number of cylinders you can use though. so 3 1 inch cylinders have similar force to 1 larger cylinder yet you can have 3 inputs vs 1 so multiple small cylinders gives you faster extend time then 1 larger cylinder
__________________
"Like the WWF, but for smart people." -George HW Bush

Team Member 1771 2008-2009
Team Mentor 1771 2010-2012 2014- Future
Team Mentor 4509 2013-2014
Team Mentor 3998 2013-2014
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-01-2014, 00:04
PAR_WIG1350's Avatar
PAR_WIG1350 PAR_WIG1350 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Alan Wells
FRC #1350 (Rambots)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,188
PAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwilson13 View Post
theirs no limit to the number of cylinders you can use though. so 3 1 inch cylinders have similar force to 1 larger cylinder yet you can have 3 inputs vs 1 so multiple small cylinders gives you faster extend time then 1 larger cylinder
Depending on how they are plumbed, yes. however there are ways to do it and still restrict flow significantly, which should be avoided.
__________________
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-01-2014, 00:07
cmwilson13's Avatar
cmwilson13 cmwilson13 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Christopher Wilson
FRC #1771 (N. G. R.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: buford GA
Posts: 89
cmwilson13 has a spectacular aura aboutcmwilson13 has a spectacular aura aboutcmwilson13 has a spectacular aura about
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

unless they have changed the rules and they may have the rules require 1 valve for 1 cylinder. so if its done that way you have significantly more flow
__________________
"Like the WWF, but for smart people." -George HW Bush

Team Member 1771 2008-2009
Team Mentor 1771 2010-2012 2014- Future
Team Mentor 4509 2013-2014
Team Mentor 3998 2013-2014
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-01-2014, 01:01
AustinShalit's Avatar
AustinShalit AustinShalit is offline
Registered User
AKA: אוסטין
no team (WPILib Suite Developer)
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Los Angeles/Worcester/Israel
Posts: 100
AustinShalit is a glorious beacon of lightAustinShalit is a glorious beacon of lightAustinShalit is a glorious beacon of lightAustinShalit is a glorious beacon of lightAustinShalit is a glorious beacon of lightAustinShalit is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

R90 prevents this, "The outputs from multiple valves may not be plumbed together"
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-01-2014, 06:33
engunneer's Avatar
engunneer engunneer is offline
Alumni turned Mentor
AKA: Branden Gunn
FRC #4761
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Reading, MA
Posts: 797
engunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinShalit View Post
R90 prevents this, "The outputs from multiple valves may not be plumbed together"
Hence using three small cylinders to do the job of one large cylinder.
__________________
Student FRC23 (1996-1999), Mentor FRC246 (2000), Mentor FRC1318 (2007-2009), Mentor FRC93 (2011), Mentor FRC2151 (2012), Mentor FRC23 (2013), Mentor FRC4761 (2014-2017)
1998 - National Chairman's Award and Woodie Flowers Award (FRC23, Mike Bastoni ) | 2007 - PNW SF (488, 1595) | 2008 - Oregon RCA - Seattle #2 Seed, SF (488, 1696) | 2009 - Oregon #1 Seed, Winners (1983, 2635) - Seattle SF (945, 2865) - Galileo #2 Seed, SF (973, 25) | 2012 Midwest F (111, 71) | 2014 RIDE Winners (78, 125), Inspector - NEU #24, QF (3479, 3958) - NECMP #35 | 2015 Reading #11, SF (1058, 190), Inspector - RIDE #17, QF(4055, 5494), Inspector - NECMP #57 | 2016 Reading #4, SF (133, 4474), DCA, Inspector - Ride #22, SF (1735, 2067), Creativity, Inspector - NECMP #48, RCA - Archimedes
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-01-2014, 13:43
Owen Makin Owen Makin is offline
Registered User
FRC #1972
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: CUHS El Centro
Posts: 50
Owen Makin is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Rules on Pneumatic Cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevenStonow View Post
There is no rule-and that's the change. If you read the 2013 manual, it's letter C of R78:



That's from the 2013 manual, whereas R77 (the comparable entry in this year's manual) this year states:
Thank you, and everyone else for their reply, our team wouldn't have noticed that small yet significant change.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:36.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi