VEXPro 2014 Product Initial Impressions

[Coach Norm]

Originally Posted by Steven Smith

Back to the OP:
Long story short, if you want to hop on CD to criticize VEXPro (or AM, or any of our other suppliers that cater to FRC)... you would be well off to word your posts more positively. I may share some frustrations, but I also understand what is and is not realistic to expect of both the equipment and the companies at the pricing we receive parts at.

As a mentor of our team, I am very disappointed to see some of the posts on CD blasting suppliers as some have. Is this the example we are wanting to set for our students? If these posts are from students, mentors where are you when the students need your guidance?

If you have such issues, deal directly with VEX. They have been very open to communications with all the teams here on CD and offered several ways for teams to communicate with them.


We are very fortunate to have suppliers who believe in FRC and the opportunities it provides for the students involved. I am certain that the prices and services they provide are not what we would find from other suppliers or we would see more vendors in this arena. AM, VEX and WCP are all veteran FRC'ers who know how the season goes in regards to getting orders in, managing time and completing builds.


Best of luck all.

[wireties]

1296 ordered lots of stuff from VexPro this year and, like others, a few parts were late arriving. But I dealt with the VP staff personally (since I pick the stuff up on the way home from work) and found them very professional and eager to make up for anything they could. We got varying reasons for the delays but all seemed logical to me - indeed they have all happened to me. And I normally deal with huge suppliers, not a niche market like FIRST. When something delayed my "builds" I had to explain it to an Admiral (I made a big piece of the navigation systems on our carriers). Generally speaking my customers were understanding as long as I made it up somehow. The point is that this happens in the "real world". There are lessons to be learned. I have found that politely but firmly pressing my suppliers and working out realistic resolutions that benefit all parties is a good way to go.

I did NOT find the pricing "devious" in any way. On the contrary I liked the "configuration" approach on the VP web site. It made perfect sense to me.

Nothing we bought from VexPro, this year or last, has ever failed. We used ball-shifters, versa planetaries, motors, shafts, bearings and many pneumatic COTS items both last year and this year.

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Coach Norm

As a mentor of our team, I am very disappointed to see some of the posts on CD blasting suppliers as some have. Is this the example we are wanting to set for our students? If these posts are from students, mentors where are you when the students need your guidance?

If you have such issues, deal directly with VEX. They have been very open to communications with all the teams here on CD and offered several ways for teams to communicate with them.


We are very fortunate to have suppliers who believe in FRC and the opportunities it provides for the students involved. I am certain that the prices and services they provide are not what we would find from other suppliers or we would see more vendors in this arena. AM, VEX and WCP are all veteran FRC'ers who know how the season goes in regards to getting orders in, managing time and completing builds.
Best of luck all.

Well said.

There is a teachable lesson here for all FIRST team members. Buying from a manufacturer like Vexpro or Andymark is much different than going and buying something from Amazon.

1. Small suppliers can only keep a small supply on hand. They have to pay taxes on inventory, and over building and surplus inventory is a drag on a bottom line. All too often, that bottom line is very very small.

2. Small suppliers order in batches. They don't call a store two counties over and ask to have some stock sent over. They have to guess demand ahead of time and try to stock up.

3. Small suppliers have a small workforce. AM and Vexpro have one 'big' season. During the rest of the year, they're fullfilling orders but on a scale that is probably a couple orders of magnitude smaller. They can't quadruple their workforce then fire all those people.

Those who work in manufacturing or own a small business understand these things pretty well, but for most of our team members it's a new concept. They're use to retail: Amazon, Itunes, and Mcdonalds. Those people who have been with FIRST for some time have a point of reference in comparing good versus bad suppliers. Those who haven't been around don't have a reference point, and don't understand how excellent the service that we're getting really is.

Back to the original subject at hand - I absolutely love versa planetaries. They blow the Banebots products out of the water.

[Foster]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

... Vexpro have one 'big' season. During the rest of the year, they're fullfilling orders but on a scale that is probably a couple orders of magnitude smaller. They can't quadruple their workforce then fire all those people.

Yes, I agree, VEX went out on a limb during their super busy VEX season to launch new VEXPro products. In VEX and VexIQ we don't do that big math stuff, just trying to remember how big a difference in "a couple of orders of magnitude" is. "...middle and high school robotics program globally with more than 7,300 teams from 25 countries playing in over 400 tournaments worldwide." Lets see that's almost twice the number of FRC teams, so does that make it two orders of magnitude?

I'm impressed, my shipments of VEX and VexIQ parts are chugging along, sorry that your VexPRO stuff has had some snags. Kudos to the people in shipping that are making this happen.

[Ben Martin]

About 2/3 of the money spent on our robots so far this year has gone toward Vex/WCP products. Everything we bought from them last year ran great through ten competitions, and after the game was released, we thought using their part ecosystem was the best COTS chassis option to meet our needs for this game. A team like ours would not be able to be near as competitive without the array of COTS options available by suppliers like Vex.

I really appreciate the responses in the various CD threads and Chance from Vex, Clinton from The Robot Space, and the WCP team for responding to my calls, helping me to properly forecast when items would arrive, and letting me know which distribution hub has given items in stock. We will be providing more business as the needs arise.

Thanks BTW for Build Blitz, it was nice showcase of how to make really effective robots while not neglecting the design process in a very short span of time. I learned a lot.

<offtopic>Is there a good choice of snap ring for the hex shafts on the Versachassis? Maybe a McMaster part #?</offtopic>

[AlecS]

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

<offtopic>Is there a good choice of snap ring for the hex shafts on the Versachassis? Maybe a McMaster part #?</offtopic>

Here you go

[Ben Martin]

Originally Posted by AlecS

Here you go

Thank you!

[team222badbrad]

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

Thank you!

Luckily we had a box of these laying around for ours! (Something that should have been included IMO.)

The 1/2" rings from this set worked perfectly.
http://www.harborfreight.com/300-pie...ent-67655.html

[pfreivald]

We've bought a bunch of VexPro products both this and last year, and have had zero problems with any of it this year. Zero.

The problems we had last year were dealt with quickly and professionally.

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

Is there a good choice of snap ring for the hex shafts on the Versachassis? Maybe a McMaster part #?

Hi Ben!

Here's what we use from www.mcmaster.com ...

e-Clips #97431A340

--Michael Blake

[apalrd]

We're using some VEX products this year, including many sets of wheels and versakey parts, and aluminum gears. I personally am loving the aluminum gears. They sounded great last night when paired with CIM motors and 11 tooth pinions (so much more gear ratio flexibility!)

Last year we ran the W-tread VersaWheels and were happy with them. We went from a much more expensive wheel and replacing the tread regularly (usually once per tournament) to a much cheaper, lighter wheel and replacing the whole wheel at the same interval (it's still cheaper to use the $5 disposable wheels vs plaction wheels and tread and a lot lighter)

In fact, I can't think of very much we bought from AM this year. Mostly pneumatic tanks and pumps and pneumatics stuff. Aluminum gears FTW.


Paul, could you put the gear ratio for the CIMile on the site? I downloaded the CAD model and figured it out from there. It's a fantastic ratio for both motors (29 tooth output gear, 12 tooth 775/8 tooth 550 input gear) (we aren't actually using a CIMile this year but we thought about it)

Also, you should make a shorter shift gearset for the ball shifter (<2:1) and a system to shift with vex motors.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by apalrd

Paul, could you put the gear ratio for the CIMile on the site?

Seconded. Call me lazy, but I visited the product page, didn't see a ratio, moved on to something else, and never looked back. It should have the ratio on the product page.

[magnets]

Originally Posted by Grant Cox

magnets - Please reply to this thread (or send me a PM) with your order number and who you ordered it from (WCP, Robot Space, or VEXpro) and we can look up the status of your order.

Thanks, but we've already been in contact. We don't desperately need the parts, and the customer service has been really great. Sorry for coming off as harsh.

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

We agree on this: Good GD & T is essential to make parts that function properly and as required. All of our manufacturing drawings have fully dimensioned drawings with GD & T per ISO standards. Our customer interface drawings will never have them. Why? We believe that is proprietary information. We believe that prescribing total runout (because concentricity in the GD&T world has nothing to do with rotating a surface around an axis) for a hexagonal hole is one of the most complicated things to get right.

So, in general, for VEXpro items, things that are supposed to be locating features (versakey system, bearing bores) will be true and things that are fastening (screw counterbores) will be at the maximum allowable tolerance for the fastener to fit.

This I get, and I must say, that all of the vex pro parts are just awesome in terms of tolerances.

You're right about the concentricity. I was going to write about something else, but totally forgot to add it. The GD&T concentricity (average or median location of points on circle, I forget which one) is useful for shafts, as at high speeds vibration happens. We've only seen this being a problem when reusing custom gearbox shafts in high speed applications.

Tonight, out of curiosity, I measured a few parts to check the tolerances. I was unable to measure any runout on a hex hub we got today with some cheapo digital indicator. This is the first time I've ever seen this on an FRC supplier part like this.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by magnets

You're right about the concentricity. I was going to write about something else, but totally forgot to add it. The GD&T concentricity (average or median location of points on circle, I forget which one) is useful for shafts, as at high speeds vibration happens. We've only seen this being a problem when reusing custom gearbox shafts in high speed applications.

Concentricity is the median position of all the points on a cylinder, with respect to an axis. It's extremely hard to properly establish. Total runout is almost always a better callout.

[Ricky Q.]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Seconded. Call me lazy, but I visited the product page, didn't see a ratio, moved on to something else, and never looked back. It should have the ratio on the product page.

The CIM-ile ratios are now posted and it is also back In Stock.

Ratio with RS-550: 9:29
Ratio with RS-775: 12:29

Best,
Ricky