More Than 1 Ball In Autonomous?

[alexander.h]

Hello! I've been looking at videos of the autonomous of other robots and many seem to talk about 2-ball and 3-ball autonomous. I am wondering how this is possible as I thought that you could only have one ball in autonomous. Could someone please clarify this for me? Thanks!

[Alan Anderson]

An alliance may start with up to three balls at the beginning of the match.

[mathking]

If an ally can't score (or can't score in the high goal) in autonomous, they could leave their ball on the ground for you to pick up and shoot.

[Procolsaurus]

Each robot on the field has the option of starting with their own ball in autonomous. One of these teams could then choose to start with their ball outside their robot, for an alliance partner to pick up or somehow deposit their ball from inside their robot into an alliance partner. The alliance partner could now shoot their own ball and the second ball.

Note there are no rules against possesing multiple balls in autonomous (or even during teleop?).

I believe this to be accurate but have not re-read the rules about this in a while.

[BBray_T1296]

Originally Posted by Procolsaurus

Note there are no rules against possesing multiple balls in autonomous (or even during teleop?).

Possessing more than one ball in Teleop could only be useful for sweeping up missed Auto balls, as there is otherwise only ever one ball on the field for you to pick up. But it is legal, or rather, is not specifically illegal

[TheMadCADer]

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Human Player is still standing right there in Autonomous...

[magnets]

Originally Posted by TheMadCADer

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Human Player is still standing right there in Autonomous...

Looks like we weren't the only ones planning to make a pass to a human player in auto....

[tickspe15]

Originally Posted by magnets

Looks like we weren't the only ones planning to make a pass to a human player in auto....

why would you want to pass to your human player in auto

can't score assist points in autonomous as they are bonus points awarded at the end of a cycle, and a cycle starts when a ball is put onto the field by a human player after being removed from the pedestal. Even if assist points could be awarded it would be hard to throw to the hp then back to the robot and into the goal in 10s.

[magnets]

Originally Posted by tickspe15

why would you want to pass to your human player in auto

can't score assist points in autonomous as they are bonus points awarded at the end of a cycle, and a cycle starts when a ball is put onto the field by a human player after being removed from the pedestal. Even if assist points could be awarded it would be hard to throw to the hp then back to the robot and into the goal in 10s.

see the previous post.

[gpetilli]

Originally Posted by TheMadCADer

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Human Player is still standing right there in Autonomous...

A robot that cant score is not likely to be able to pass to the human player. How do you envision using the human player?

[Woolly]

Originally Posted by gpetilli

A robot that cant score is not likely to be able to pass to the human player. How do you envision using the human player?

Well, here's the deal, if a robot can shoot but is not accurate, you may be better off having it pass to the human player, who throws it to the multi-ball-auto bot who is more consistent. The advantage of being able to pass to the human player is that after the ball is passed, the inaccurate robot now has no reason to need to stay in a single spot (to keep the ball from rolling away from where the multi-ball-auto bot expects it to be.), and can immediately get their mobility points, and then position themselves in the best spot possible to begin teleop.

tl;dr It's VERY situational, but it's still a possibility.



Also, if you are inaccurate, shooting to the human player would be worth a quick 10-points at the start of teleop, given the human player could inbound accurately to a more accurate robot. It saves a lot of tracking down a missed shot that went who knows where.

EDIT: In fact, if I were concerned about my robot's accuracy, I would set up in autonomous to where the robot is at such an angle that the shot will tend to either go in the goal, or the rebound will go out of bounds to the HP.

[magnets]

Originally Posted by gpetilli

A robot that cant score is not likely to be able to pass to the human player. How do you envision using the human player?

Let's say we plan on shooting from in front of the goal, and we want to do a multi ball auto. We have to drive forward, shoot our ball into the goal, drive back, spin (if collector is in the front), grab the 2nd ball, spin again, drive forward, and shoot. Not happening (at least for us) in 10 seconds.

Or, you could shoot your ball to your human player on the side of the hot goal, drive forward, pick up a ball on the field, keep driving until you're at the goal, shoot, let the human player throw in the second ball, and shoot again. It makes a multi-ball in the hot goal way more feasible.

[TheMadCADer]

Originally Posted by gpetilli

A robot that cant score is not likely to be able to pass to the human player. How do you envision using the human player?

It would be of limited use, but still useful. A robot with an inaccurate shooter (as determined by match scouting or the team's own admission), but still a functional one, could make the pass to a Human Player who has the advantage of being able to adjust to catch the ball. I expect a huge number of teams will design their robots to be loaded by a Human Player at the beginning of a Cycle, and this situation wouldn't be much different.

Even if you run out of time in Autonomous and don't score the extra ball, it is secure in the hands of the Human Player or already loaded and ready to be shot. That ball is still 10 points. The way I see it, the only downside is if you miss the human player entirely.

Originally Posted by tickspe15

why would you want to pass to your human player in auto

can't score assist points in autonomous as they are bonus points awarded at the end of a cycle, and a cycle starts when a ball is put onto the field by a human player after being removed from the pedestal. Even if assist points could be awarded it would be hard to throw to the hp then back to the robot and into the goal in 10s.

It's not for assists, its to allow for scoring more balls in Autonomous. My idea is slightly different from Magnets'. Rather than having one robot pick up two balls off the ground for a 3 ball routine, have one or both of those balls go to the Human Player(s) (you can distribute your Alliance's Human Players however you see fit). This eliminates driving time as well as the margin of error associated with driving around. It is very feasible to shoot from inside the White Zone. It is also feasible to shoot 3 times from that same distance. Maybe you don't get your Mobility points because the shots took a while, but you don't care, 5 points is nothing compared to the 17.5 points per ball in Autonomous.

[gpetilli]

Originally Posted by TheMadCADer

It would be of limited use, but still useful. A robot with an inaccurate shooter (as determined by match scouting or the team's own admission), but still a functional one, could make the pass to a Human Player who has the advantage of being able to adjust to catch the ball. I expect a huge number of teams will design their robots to be loaded by a Human Player at the beginning of a Cycle, and this situation wouldn't be much different.

Even if you run out of time in Autonomous and don't score the extra ball, it is secure in the hands of the Human Player or already loaded and ready to be shot. That ball is still 10 points. The way I see it, the only downside is if you miss the human player entirely.



It's not for assists, its to allow for scoring more balls in Autonomous. My idea is slightly different from Magnets'. Rather than having one robot pick up two balls off the ground for a 3 ball routine, have one or both of those balls go to the Human Player(s) (you can distribute your Alliance's Human Players however you see fit). This eliminates driving time as well as the margin of error associated with driving around. It is very feasible to shoot from inside the White Zone. It is also feasible to shoot 3 times from that same distance. Maybe you don't get your Mobility points because the shots took a while, but you don't care, 5 points is nothing compared to the 17.5 points per ball in Autonomous.

This sounds like a very complicated AUTO program. I would imagine it is much easier to simply have a poor shooter put the ball touching the bumper and if someone else can gather and shoot, great. At 8 sec drive forward full speed for mobility - dont look at hot goals. Simple and effective.

[TheMadCADer]

Originally Posted by gpetilli

This sounds like a very complicated AUTO program. I would imagine it is much easier to simply have a poor shooter put the ball touching the bumper and if someone else can gather and shoot, great. At 8 sec drive forward full speed for mobility - dont look at hot goals. Simple and effective.

The purpose of this is to simplify the routine. Picking up a single ball is easy and will be one of the multiple routines used, but the amount of driving and fine tuned positioning needed to do the same for three balls is more work than using the Human Player.

Think about it, as the receiver of the extra balls, you only need to program your robot to shoot, reload, shoot, reload, shoot, and drive if there's time. Hot Goal will be disregarded, you're bound to get one or two each match without trying, so why bother for the extra 2.5 points per shot?

As the robot passing to the Human Player, you just set up sideways somewhere pretty close to the right distance (accuracy doesn't matter) shoot, turn 90 degrees, and drive. Maybe back up again if you're feeling fancy.

You just need the right Alliance for it.