Should We Catch?

[Canon reeves]

So our team is running out of time, just like everyone else, but all we have done is a kitbot long configuration robot, we have had no driver practice, but we do have an experienced driver, and don't have the resources to make a good kicker or feeder. We are however considering a design that allows us to stretch out our full limit and catch/ block. Basically it is a bar at every corner that goes up 55 inches (to stay under 5 ft) and all of them are on hinges so that when we expand our piston and have the edge of the bars go 20 inches out to optimize catching and defense. Does this sound like a valid plan? we could catch the ball, hold it and it wouldn't fall out, but we couldn't ground feed? we have most all the parts we need for it and I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions on if it was worth our effort?

[Dan.Tyler]

Just make sure you can also spit it out, and prevent yourself from catching an opponents ball. This could make you a solid midfielder if you can pass it to a shooter up front

[Justin Shelley]

If it could then pass the ball to another alliance partner then it seems like a great design plan! Catching robots with a defense capability are a solid idea for any team this year

[seg9585]

I would think making a static, angled platform at the correct height would permit you, at the very least, to score in the lower goal once the ball has been caught. Such a platform could also be used, once your catch device is retracted, to roll (ie pass) the ball to another teammate and score assist points.

[arizonafoxx]

Keep in mind you will want to figure out a way to get the ball out of you basket so you can get it to an alliance partner after the catch. Catching a ball will be an advantage to your alliance more than having defense alone. I would take this next week and build your idea and if it works put it on the bot. If it doesn't work at least you tried and hopefully learned from the experience. Anything you can do to get a few extra points for your alliance is really helpful.

Do you also have your autonomous designed so you can get the 5 points for driving forward into the next zone? That will also benefit your alliance so make sure you can do that as well.

[Ginger Power]

If it's between that and having a brick bot then what you described is a major step up. I would try to figure out a way to put the ball in the one point goal (which would also enable you to pass the ball on the ground or directly into another robot). If you can extend out to max dimensions to catch and then spit the ball out that would make you a very viable robot in eliminations (if execution is at a high level).

[jvriezen]

If you weren't aware, you can put only part of your bot in your bag when you bag it up, and continue to work on components (or create new ones) after bag & tag day. You may bring up to 45 lbs of fabricated stuff outside of your bag (as well as raw materials and COTS parts) to the competition and then attach it there. Also, you don't need to bag your bumpers, and they don't count toward the 45 lbs.

So you have more time that you might have realized to get something working. \

Today's team update is raising the limit from 30 lbs to 45 lbs.

[Woolly]

It sounds reasonable, but a ground collection system would tend to be more worthwhile, because a catching robot depends on having a teammate that can toss accurately.
I would prioritize as follows:
1.Drivetrain (complete)
2. Ground Pickup/Spit-out (look at Ri3D bots to see how simple this is)
3. Catching mechanism that can interface with your ground pickup to spit the ball out in a controlled fashion.
4. removable high goal blocker (if you have time)

[Andy A.]

In addition to catching, which I don't consider a particularly simple task as it also necessitates some sort of ball ejector at a minimum, think about goal tending.

Of the two, catching and blocking, I think blocking may be the easier (though not necessarily easy!) mechanism to implement at this point. No one knows yet how the game may play but I suspect that a decent blocker could deny an opposing team at least as many points as a decent catcher can score, all else being equal. From what I've seen on CD so far, it's not a common trait, so you might have little competition filling that niche.

[Woolly]

Originally Posted by Andy A.

In addition to catching, which I don't consider a particularly simple task as it also necessitates some sort of ball ejector at a minimum, think about goal tending.

Of the two, catching and blocking, I think blocking may be the easier (though not necessarily easy!) mechanism to implement at this point. No one knows yet how the game may play but I suspect that a decent blocker could deny an opposing team at least as many points as a decent catcher can score, all else being equal. From what I've seen on CD so far, it's not a common trait, so you might have little competition filling that niche.

I would think they would want to use their in-season time to do other things. As long as there is some kind of mount point, they could build a blocker using their withholding allowance.

[BrendanB]

I would recommend your team focus on picking up a ball from the floor and being able to put it back on the floor.

You are more valuable as an assist partner than a catching partner which is dependent on a partner who can throw the ball accurately and you being able to line up in a specific spot each and every time. Being in the perfect world match where both you and a partner can carry out a catch consistently like that will be very slim!

If you can just pickup from the floor and put it back down you should also be able to score in the 1 point goal (so you can get points on your own!). Also remember that three assists in the low goal is 31 points and three assists in the high goal is only 40 points. A triple assist in the low goal made up of only three robots with drivebases and ground pickups can be EXTREMELY lethal if all three can do it fast. The bottom of that goal is 7in from the ground and the lowest your bumpers can be mounted at is a height of 7in as well (bumper zone is 2in-10in and your bumper is 5in tall).

It is very easy to move forward with making an open cage on the top of your robot that can help you catch a ball and then with your collector spit it back out to the floor or goal.

You still have PLENTY of time but get the ball pickup working then get some driver practice and lots of it. Its great that you have an experienced driver but every year there are new challenges so you can't just throw him on the field and hope he'll pickup a ball with ease (I remember back to 2008 when we had 40in balls no it wasn't easy at first).

Good luck and if you need any help, feel free to PM me!

[Qbot2640]

I'm going to propose a different possibility - implement some type of bulldozer blade like mechanism, and be a low goal scorer. Design and build should be rather quick, use the remaining time to get really good finding the ball and pushing it in (drive practice). Think about autonomous mode where one or two of the other bots misses their high goal shot...you can push them in to get the first cycle started as soon as teleop starts. In matches with other capable shooters, the pusher can be employed defensively. Or, if you are particularly effective and fast, it may be more efficient to quickly end each cycle with a fast low goal and get truss and assist points, than spend time waiting for a high goal shooter that may need to set up for their shot and/or be easily defended.

[Canon reeves]

Thanks for the feed back! We would be able to eject the ball, score in the low goal, and possibly pick up, but it would have to be up against the wall. What we were thinking is if the pistons could retract and grasp the ball, when we extended them it would do one of two things.
1. the nets slope downwards so we can always eject,
2. when the pistons extend it provide tension in the net and in a sense slightly propelling it. not sure how much, we don't want much, just to be able to bring it in and out.
We could possibly pick up because don't have bumpers that cover the whole front, meaning if we pushed against the wall with the ball in between, we could lift it up to us.
I most definitely expect to be on poor alliances in a sense with people that can't shoot, but what people sometimes over look is that in eliminations, those robots can shoot. So I would rather cater to them in a way because I figured not as many people focus on catching, or at least the shooting ones, and what good is a better feeder when you have to members that can feed. We have several strategic options with this as well, we can catch, then let it go to our partner, we can let it go in the low goal. Or we can be the inbounder and use our catcher to play defense on the other teams shooter.
For autonomous we were planning to have at least two different codes, one that pushes us and another robot into our zone, and another that just drives forward and releases into the low goal. I have watched A LOT of videos from other teams this year, and I've seen three basic pick ups, roller bar/ wheels, grippers, and El Torro style. We have the stuff for the wheels but no machining tools. We have a jig saw, a drill, and a really old and small drill press and then some basic tools. We figured doing this would be the quickest and easiest way to have a useful robot, then if we have time we would work on our pick up system. Believe me, I reallllly wanted a ground feeder, but we just don't have the stuff for it or the knowledge.
this is kind of what the slope of the bot would look like. Not exactly, just a general idea though.
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