Week Zero Discussion/Impressions/Discoveries/Fun Facts

[Steven Donow]

So, it seems to me that this year there are more Week Zeros than ever, so the first "real" matches of Aerial Assist matches will be played this weekend! This thread is specifically for discussion of what was discovered either about the game or the field this weekend.

In regards to official fields (and possible 'quirks' discovered about the field, ie. balls under the bridge in 2012), the only events I know of with official fields are the Merrimack event (which is FIRST-run/has official electronics) and Suffield Shakedown in CT, and the MAR Scrimmage in Watchung Hills(which as of now is still on).

I will personally be at the Merrimack offseason event and should be able to have some video up on Youtube soon after the event.

[jwfoss]

I believe the Suffield Shakedown Scrimmage(CT), will also have an official field, just not the field control and scoring systems.

[Deetman]

FYI, the MAR scrimmage at Watchung Hills will have the official field, but not the field electronics.

[RyanCahoon]

Will any Week Zero events be running webcasts?

[Jim Giacchi]

Team 41 is planning on trying... but we haven't been having much luck lately with the weather or the field or much in general :-) . So check the website or the forums and if we have it up we will post the link. Caveat on top of the caveat, we run more of a practice then a scrimmage as we have yet to get six working robots at the event at the same time the three years we have done this. So if the webcast is up, it will most likely be VERY boring.
Thanks,
Jim

[MooreteP]

Suffield Shakedown just wrapped up. Only about 20 teams were able to make it.
We skipped eliminations due to the start of a snow storm (again!) that was heavy to our south.

We had an official field operating on FMS lite, meaning no lights and paper scoring that actually worked pretty well. The truss is cool. Watch your head on the field. Some padding on the lower bar may be a good idea. If you don't meet the height limit, the truss was like those bars that they hang overhead at parking garages.

Many Robots in almost finished condition. Typical for a shakedown cruise. Many teams will be revising their designs over the next three days.

Notables:
263, Sachem After Shock. Good drivers, good assists.
716, Who'sCTEKS. Ri3D spinning rods for acquisition, high goal sometimes.

230, Gaelhawks. I questioned designs that used a hammer or some other weighted lever to store energy to kick the ball, but this Robot was consistently dead on. Having the ball pass through the plane of the goal during the "flat" part of the trajectory was key, though the shot could be blocked.

195, CyberKnights & 839 Rosie Robotics, had unique designs for ball handling. Neither worked too well, yet..........We may see some very interesting solutions to the ball handling problem this year. Rosie's looked like a virus. I wish I took pictures.

558 RoboSquad made a cool intake roller with the motors positioned axially inside the roller. The intake solutions are also interesting.

We had three assists with high goals happen.
Truss shots that were almost caught.
High score of 142. (No defense, cause there were no Robots on the field for the opposing alliance)
There is an interesting defensive strategy described below that may require a rules revision. Hopefully not.

My impressions after this rudimentary Beta test of the game:

- It's going to evolve more than past games over the next 8 weeks.

- Clear the field in Autonomous and get the cycle started.
If you can't guarantee disposal of the ball in autonomous or quickly in tele-op, don't bother.

- Robot to Robot passes are safer. Losing control of the ball sucks. Make your Robot a good kisser.

- The GDC hit the nail on the head when they interpreted co-opertition within an alliance this year by rewarding the "assist". Scores with assists were very valuable today.

- Good defense will become a serious issue by week two. Blocking the progression of the ball is very effective. Blocking a shot into the goal, is almost as valuable as scoring in terms of the time penalty.

- A defensive strategy that may be addressed with a rules change. (I hope not) Sequestering the opposing alliances ball between the corner of their low goal and the center of the field. It is a difficult strategy to break.
If you push them into your ball to cause possession, you get a foul. A G14 causing a G12. Both are 50 pt technical fouls. This defensive move may require two robots to pry the defender away from their ball. Like a trap in Basketball. I hope they let this play out.

- Foul calling will shift many matches. We had no fouls at Suffield Shakedown, but then, the defense wasn't developed. There is inadvertent versus intentional possession of the opposing alliances ball that will be an issue.
As defense becomes more pronounced, we will see this interpretation affect the game play, just like the NCAA and NBA where referees control the strategies and actions of the teams they oversee by the calls they make. Great sports analogy for the GDC.

- One great design. A Robot that can take in a ball on one side and shoot it out the other through the high goal without turning. Kind of like a shooting guard in basketball. They can make the shot quickly, and restart the cycle.

- Another great design. A Goalie Bot, or center (In basketball), that can get the first assist, and pass the ball to a truss bot, and then defend the opposing alliances goal. Reading the Hot goal and being able to put up some type of obstruction would be devastating to an alliance that was trying to work the autonomous advantage. Preventing autonomous success has a high time penalty for the opposing alliance to "clean up" the field.

- The third alliance member(s) would be a "power forward", that can handle the middle of the field, risk possession with a truss shot, and cause mobility issues for the opposing alliance as the try to move their ball towards their goal.

I am liking this game more and more.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

- A defensive strategy that may be addressed with a rules change. (I hope not) Sequestering the opposing alliances ball between the corner of their low goal and the center of the field. It is a difficult strategy to break.
If you push them into your ball to cause possession, you get a foul. A G14 causing a G12. Both are 50 pt technical fouls. This defensive move may require two robots to pry the defender away from their ball. Like a trap in Basketball. I hope they let this play out.

Were the refs not calling this trapping?

“trapping” (overt isolation or holding one or more BALLS against a FIELD element or ROBOT in an attempt to shield them).

[MooreteP]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

Were the refs not calling this trapping?

It only happened twice. As long as they aren't in contact with the ball, it probably isn't trapping. Just "sequestering".

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

It only happened twice. As long as they aren't in contact with the ball, it probably isn't trapping. Just "sequestering".

But the rule clearly makes a distinction between "isolation" and "holding". I interrupted isolation similarly to the VEX trapping rule where if you don't allow someone/thing to leave a place even if you don't touch it it is just like pinning.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

558 RoboSquad made a cool intake roller with the motors positioned axially inside the roller.

We did that too. I thought it was the only sensible way to make it?

We had fun at the Duel in the Desert. Thanks Arcadia! Quite a few robots shooting high goals, not many assist attempts. Although we did several "fed" assist shots into the high goal, with our in-one-end-out-the-other robot.

We saw one catch over the truss...and I think only one autonomous high goal. Although I didn't see a lot of the action.

No real matches were played, no scoring, no field, just a rope "truss" and half a high goal and two low goals at each end, but it was enough to get a feel for the game, and mostly to test robots.

[Tartan47]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

- A defensive strategy that may be addressed with a rules change. (I hope not) Sequestering the opposing alliances ball between the corner of their low goal and the center of the field. It is a difficult strategy to break.
If you push them into your ball to cause possession, you get a foul. A G14 causing a G12. Both are 50 pt technical fouls. This defensive move may require two robots to pry the defender away from their ball. Like a trap in Basketball. I hope they let this play out.

As others mentioned above, this was the sort of scenario I envisioned would result in a "trapping" possession call. Will be interesting to see if this scenario is called the same from regional to regional and week to week

[Canon reeves]

Does anybody have a link to where the videos of the events are? If they were recorded that is? Thanks.

[BrendanB]

I am uploading footage from team 3467's matches today at the Merrimack, NH Week Zero event.

I will post a link in this thread when they are up.

[mwtidd]

Be careful about extending outside of the field perimeter. When scoring in the low goal, the refs realized our net was hanging over the field rail. We were told this was a penalty, and that if we continued to do it after being warned that it would be technical.

Also, just because you completed your assist, doesn't mean your job in the cycle is over. I expect the pick play will be used often to free up shooters.

[mrnoble]

At the event hosted by 2996 (thanks, people!), here's what I learned.

Quick passes require a quick intake. Fast possession will be a primo skill.

If a team can't hit the high goal with 75% efficiency or better, they'd be better off not bothering. Bouncing balls easily end up back on the wrong side of the field and waste a ton of time.

Same goes for autonomous shots. Why make your alliance partners chase down your missed shots?

The most efficient score I saw was: inbound, quick pass, over the truss to human player, inbound, low goal. 41 points. Reliability over risk.

Mecanum is as of yet not proving itself to me to be effective, though lots of teams chose it. I think it will be driver dependent, and not uniquely strategic.

The main way in which this game mimics 2008 will probably be the potential for high-speed collisions with appendages. Yikes!

Defense is more viable than I thought. A good 5' net will block many shots and frustrate many teams.