Made in America

[noceradave]

One of the urgent reasons education needs to be involved with programs like First robotics is to raise the technology literacy of American students and help them thrive in technology careers in this globalized technology centric economy. Because of outsourcing, students face a real threat that they will graduate colleges and not find jobs . It is disappointing to see what percentage of components used on our robots are imported.

Should First create a new rule that technology used on robots needs to be "made in America"?

[Whippet]

No, because FIRST is an international organization. There are teams based out of China, Turkey, Israel, Canada, Mexico, Australia, and many other nations, so it would be unfair to them to make such a requirement.

[yash101]

Whippet has a strong point. If we make all parts in the US, the many hundred teams outside the US will have a disadvantage because everything needs to come from the US. That means there will be forced tariffs and those teams will have to pay more. FIRST is, as Whippet said, an international organization (i don't get why they use USFIRST). It already takes a while for some teams to receive their kits. It would take even longer if they needed to wait for shipping from the US for basic parts. What if they broke a part that they didn't have extras of, the week build season ends? They wouldn't have enough time to order from US, but may be able to go to a hardware store.

Samsung is a company based out of Korea. They produce very powerful mobile processors that can be used onboard the robot to create a high-performance preprocessing system. Out of the US, I can only think of TI as the closest competitor to Samsung for high performance boards, capable of running Linux. Blocking Samsung would create a possible monopoly for TI and it's very powerful A15 chips!

Also, it is important to note that a lot of parts come from China. It is not only cheap, but many parts get the job done successfully.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by yash101

(i don't get why they use USFIRST).

FIRST was not always an "international organization." It took several years before there were any Canadian teams, and a few more before Brazillians joined the party. FIRST did not have an event outside of North America until the pilot Israel regional in 2005. The organization was originally called US FIRST, and had a more US-centric goal. It used the name "US FIRST" on its literature until at least 1997. There's still a reason you will hear comments about the US' ranking in the world at many FIRST events. While the mission of FIRST is international now, there is some validity in the history of the organization.

[Christopher149]

And FIRST is legally the "United States Foundation For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology." But FIRST is more than just the US non-profit.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

FIRST was not always an "international organization." It took several years before there were any Canadian teams, and a few more before Brazillians joined the party. FIRST did not have an event outside of North America until the pilot Israel regional in 2005. The organization was originally called US FIRST, and had a more US-centric goal. It used the name "US FIRST" on its literature until at least 1997. There's still a reason you will hear comments about the US' ranking in the world at many FIRST events. While the mission of FIRST is international now, there is some validity in the history of the organization.

To add to that with a little nuget of trivia, while FIRST has been using FIRST as it's DBA name for a long time now, the legal name of the entity is still The United States Foundation For The Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology. While it's focus has obviously shifted from just the US to international outreach, due to the legal name once and a while you will still see US FIRST on things.

[PandaHatMan]

Keep it simple. The more rules and stipulations you put on robots, the less appealing FIRST becomes. 90% of the rules are for safety. The other 10% is for fairness and making sure the game is played correctly. If you and your team feel inclined to make sure all of the components of your robot originate in America, by all means, make it so. Other teams just don't have the money or resources to make an 'American' robot.

[EricDrost]

Why? Ignoring the obvious international teams argument, why does a product need to be manufactured in USA?

A manufacturing job in China[or insert other nationality] is one of the first occupations for the masses to earn a living outside of subsistence farming. Additionally, it doesn't make as much sense to manufacture parts for big US companies in the US. It would not be possible for Apple to grow to its current size with US manufacturing. Are you saying that you would rather they built a small brand with maybe 10,000 US manufacturing jobs at the cost of building a large brand with 200,000 US engineering, management, retail, and transportation jobs? In addition to the international manufacturing jobs that give people globally an option that isn't laboring a field for food?

Millions of people in the US are employed by foreign companies. This is a global world. Graduates of FIRST will own or work for companies that purchase from and sell to most countries in this world. If anything, there needs to be a bigger focus on where parts are sourced internationally because it will give them a clearer understanding of where the advantages and disadvantages of outsourcing parts lie.

[fox46]

I challenge you to give me an example of a FIRST component or part that is entirely made in the USA...

Andymark, VEX and nearly all other suppliers although they may say their product is made in the USA, the bearings, fasteners, gears, shafts-- component parts etc nearly always come from offshore. It is the only way for them to offer products that we can or are willing to pay for.

The reality of the world today is that we live in a global economy.

For those of you "buy domestic" types, you may need to rethink your choice of automobile. http://www.caranddriver.com/features...merica-feature

[s_forbes]

We bought a metal component from McMaster, I was pleasantly surprised how close to home it originated! You may have to zoom in to see it.

[Sean Raia]

Originally Posted by s_forbes

We bought a metal component from McMaster, I was pleasantly surprised how close to home it originated! You may have to zoom in to see it.

This post deserved more attention.

I agree that America can't compete with Chinese prices, but there are other factors that come to play when deciding on where to buy from. Comparative advantage is a powerful thing. We can't shy away from these questions, and i'm glad this discussion is being handled in a rational and respectful manor.

By the way, take it from someone who's at his first internship in the CIS field: The jobs are still out there, but it's not a guarantee that you can get one straight out of college if you don't go the extra mile. There's tough competition out there, so students will simply have to rise to meet the challenge. America needs to step it's game up, and we are doing just that with this program. Imposing artificial limits within the program is the WRONG way to inspire students.

[xXhunter47Xx]

From what I've noticed, things made in America don't tend to be of the greatest quality. Sure some stuff may be good, but for the most part it tends to cost more and is of lower quality than imported goods.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by yash101

Whippet has a strong point. If we make all parts in the US, the many hundred teams outside the US will have a disadvantage because everything needs to come from the US. That means there will be forced tariffs and those teams will have to pay more. FIRST is, as Whippet said, an international organization (i don't get why they use USFIRST). It already takes a while for some teams to receive their kits. It would take even longer if they needed to wait for shipping from the US for basic parts. What if they broke a part that they didn't have extras of, the week build season ends? They wouldn't have enough time to order from US, but may be able to go to a hardware store.

International teams total about 300-400. FIRST is showing 241 teams in Canada for the 2014 season, and Canada is by far the largest non-US country in FIRST.

As it is, Canadian teams ordering from suppliers other than VexPro's Canadian office get dinged big time for shipping/import taxes, and long lead times. Other international teams from non-NAFTA member nations would additionally have to pay import duties on robot parts made in the USA.

Teams in Brazil and Australia often wait weeks into build season to even get their KOP.

FIRST uses the name USFIRST, because that's the legal name of the organization. It is officially the "United States Foundation For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology".

Besides: I don't know what you're looking at. Most robot parts that aren't motors come from American companies already. (Innovation First Inc. and AndyMark Inc.) I realize, though that these American companies may outsource production of their parts to Asia.

[rsisk]

How about we make parts in America that are so amazing that everyone will want to buy them.

[Wayne TenBrink]

Originally Posted by rsisk

How about we make parts in America that are so amazing that everyone will want to buy them.

I don't know if current trends in FRC are helping with that. With the growth of FRC-specific component/assembly suppliers and the advent of Ri3D builds, FRC is becoming more about shopping around for existing stuff and less about creating it yourself. That's not all bad, but not all good either. Some outdated rules (IMHO) on "fabricated" vs. "COTS" items encourage this.

Perhaps someday we will have the "IF IT LOOKS LIKE WORK FARM IT OUT AWARD sponsored by Manpower Associates", or (for the robot with the most "Made in China" content) the "CHAIRMAN MAO'S AWARD".

I do not support a "Made in America" rule for FRC, but I do support policies that encourage teams to design and build more of their own stuff. I think that will inspire the development of talented and experienced problem solvers who will improve life for Americans and everybody else.