2014 OPR After Week One Events

[Ed Law]

The OPR/CCWM numbers have been posted, please see

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2174

There are a number of points I would like to make:

1) Even though week one events are not completed, I am publishing this because there was a minor problem with the macro. It is now fixed. I also fixed some minor bugs.

2) Team Standings for Centerline is not posted on FIRST website. I posted what the FTA gave me but I am not certain the subscores are in the right columns. There were only two columns in the FTA report and I guess they are for Autonomous points and Teleop points. I will update them once the Team Standings are posted on the FIRST website.

3) We already broke the 100 mark for OPR. Congratulations Jim.

If you find any error or have any questions, please let me know.

[Jim Zondag]

Originally Posted by Ed Law

We already broke the 100 mark for OPR. Congratulations Jim.

Thanks Ed, although I do not believe that the OPR numbers truly reflect teams' ability properly because of the penalty results being included in the Teleop numbers. The 50 pt technical fouls are big enough to skew the OPR results. There were matches at Southfield with up to 150 points in penalties per side. We will go through today using the twitter feed data to remove the penalties and recompute. I suspect our actual OPR is more like 90.

Someone should attempt to build this feature into one of the various OPR calculators. Without this, the 2014 OPR data will lack integrity (unless, of course, if the GDC fixes the broken penalty rules).

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by Jim Zondag

Thanks Ed, although I do not believe that the OPR numbers truly reflect teams' ability properly because of the penalty results being included in the Teleop numbers.

Would anyone like to speculate on how OPR fits true robot scoring abilities or alliance contributions this year compared to previous years?

One thing I see that is different this year is that any particular alliance can do much better (or much worse) than the sum of the individual teams since robots can't do their own thing for an entire match.

[Bongle]

Originally Posted by efoote868

Would anyone like to speculate on how OPR fits true robot scoring abilities or alliance contributions this year compared to previous years?

One thing I see that is different this year is that any particular alliance can do much better (or much worse) than the sum of the individual teams since robots can't do their own thing for an entire match.

It should be pretty excellent at giving a rating for a team's contributions this year, and in fact should be fantastic at finding teams who contribute to their alliance without doing the prestige tasks. A team that adds two assists on every ball but doesn't shoot it through the goal will get a good OPR.

However: even moreso than in past years, you won't want to scout with it. A team might get a 60-70pt OPR without ever firing a ball. If you also don't shoot a ball, you probably want to find a shooter or a low-goal specializer. If you already have a fantastic shooter, you may not want to pick a team that earned their OPR with a shooter. In past years you could maybe get away with picking the top 3 in OPR for an alliance, but with such different functionalities and roles, you'll want to make sure that everyone is compatible.

Also, keep in mind that you can't always compare across events with OPR - an event where everyone tends to play offense and keep to themselves will elevate all their robots OPRs, compared to an event with heavier defense.

Another thought about the penalties: It would be interesting to not only remove the penalties from scores (as has been done), but to actually subtract them from the team that caused them when putting inputs into an OPR-solver. This would help find teams that are racking up a lot of penalties, since their OPRs would go much lower.

tl,dr: OPR will be great for entertainment purposes to do comparisons across robots who do different tasks, but poor for scouting.

[JamesCH95]

Any particular reason that GSDE isn't included in this data?

[Ether]

Originally Posted by Bongle

Another thought about the penalties: It would be interesting to not only remove the penalties from scores (as has been done), but to actually subtract them from the team that caused them when putting inputs into an OPR-solver. This would help find teams that are racking up a lot of penalties, since their OPRs would go much lower.

Or you could just do an "OPR" on foul points.

(Note: This uses Twitter data. The usual Twitter data caveats apply).

[markmcgary]

Originally Posted by Ether

Or you could just do an "OPR" on foul points.

(Note: This uses Twitter data. The usual Twitter data caveats apply).

Just so I understand the "OPR" on foul points, is lower OPR a good thing?

(Thanks to all contributors for this data. Very interesting stuff.)

[Ether]

Originally Posted by markmcgary

Just so I understand the "OPR" on foul points, is lower OPR a good thing?

Since the point of the computation was to try to estimate the fouls committed by each team, lower is better.

See cell G1 in the spreadsheet.

[markmcgary]

Originally Posted by Ether

See cell G1 in the spreadsheet.

Sigh... I can no longer complain about my customers who do not read the instructions.

Thank you.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Bongle

It should be pretty excellent at giving a rating for a team's contributions this year, and in fact should be fantastic at finding teams who contribute to their alliance without doing the prestige tasks. A team that adds two assists on every ball but doesn't shoot it through the goal will get a good OPR.

However: even moreso than in past years, you won't want to scout with it. A team might get a 60-70pt OPR without ever firing a ball. If you also don't shoot a ball, you probably want to find a shooter or a low-goal specializer. If you already have a fantastic shooter, you may not want to pick a team that earned their OPR with a shooter. In past years you could maybe get away with picking the top 3 in OPR for an alliance, but with such different functionalities and roles, you'll want to make sure that everyone is compatible.

Also, keep in mind that you can't always compare across events with OPR - an event where everyone tends to play offense and keep to themselves will elevate all their robots OPRs, compared to an event with heavier defense.

Another thought about the penalties: It would be interesting to not only remove the penalties from scores (as has been done), but to actually subtract them from the team that caused them when putting inputs into an OPR-solver. This would help find teams that are racking up a lot of penalties, since their OPRs would go much lower.

tl,dr: OPR will be great for entertainment purposes to do comparisons across robots who do different tasks, but poor for scouting.

At Inland Empire, we had a robot that only had a drive train playing only defense--no shooter or pick up mechanism with a middling OPR (and ended up an alliance captain), and another that was having quite an offensive day (our 3rd alliance member) with a low OPR despite showing high in our scouting data. The OPR this year seems to be greatly influenced by the schedule and win-loss record. And with 13 matches apiece, this was the best possible statistical mix of any event.

[Debbie]

Thanks Ed, and Jim, and everyone that is working on this. Ed, is the Center Line data updated yet? Thanks for taking out the penalty points. They were ridiculous! (and that's all I will say on that subject here) Can you please let me know when it is?
Thanks!!!

[dellagd]

Im not that good at using excel, but I can't find the adjusted OPR for Hatboro even though the regular OPR data is there. Is this due to the lack of twitter data as Ether said?

[Ether]

Originally Posted by dellagd

Im not that good at using excel, but I can't find the adjusted OPR for Hatboro even though the regular OPR data is there. Is this due to the lack of twitter data as Ether said?

Yes. The Twitter data has foul points. The Team Standings data lumps foul points together with TeleOp Goal points.

[JohnGilb]

As regards teams with negative "Foul OPR:"

Does that essentially mean that not only do they rarely (if ever) commit fouls, but also that their presence on an alliance reduces the chance/severity of their allies committing fouls as well?

If so, we should really be asking teams 2493 and 4981 what they're doing to keep the game clean. =]

[Ether]

Originally Posted by JohnGilb

As regards teams with negative "Foul OPR:"

Does that essentially mean that not only do they rarely (if ever) commit fouls, but also that their presence on an alliance reduces the chance/severity of their allies committing fouls as well?

Statistically, yes. But all the usual OPR caveats apply.