Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player

[topgun]

So, why wasn't any of the defenders hitting you? The 900 human player was indicating that you needed to line up before shooting. Couldn't a defender have just rammed in and knocked the robot off enough to shut this down?

[pabeekm]

Originally Posted by topgun

So, why wasn't any of the defenders hitting you? The 900 human player was indicating that you needed to line up before shooting. Couldn't a defender have just rammed in and knocked the robot off enough to shut this down?

Defense turned out to not be a big problem. Because we were in the corner, we could only be hit periodically thanks to pinning rules. Even when we were hit out of alignment and couldn't readjust before the firing activated, the ball would only land a few feet away from our human player and either
a) it was out of bounds and he would receive it back within a few seconds
or
b) it landed on field in the general vicinity of the goals

Plus our drivetrain is built pretty tough, so knocking us out of alignment probably isn't worth what little delay it causes our cycles.

[BEN35678]

We were planning on doing that as well we just need to find out how consistent it will be.

[AndyBare]

I loved this! You guys did great at Palmetto, and if I could give you just one piece of constructive criticism (I only have one), it would be this: Don't put your human player in striped pants. We knew that you guys would be loading horizontally across the field from the guy in zebra pants, so we knew exactly where to send the defense. Again, great job, and hope to see you guys at FIRST Championship in St. Louis!
Andrew - 1261

[nlj007]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

I definitely agree it will be very very uncommon and that you have to plan for this from the beginning. You don't necessarily need a custom gearbox (although it would definitely help). We are using a custom made ratcheting winch with 1 cim motor in a toughbox mini. We also have an acme lead screw which loosens our surgical tubing when our winch pulls the catapult down. The lead screw tensions the surgical tubing (allowing for a variable shot) to our desired shot length. We are hoping that at the max tension we are able to emulate your full court assist to the human player.

I would like to see this if you get it successfully implemented. Keep us updated on your progress!

[Ginger Power]

Originally Posted by nlj007

I would like to see this if you get it successfully implemented. Keep us updated on your progress!

I'll post a video to this forum when we finalize our practice robot. We have been waiting on a couple of vital parts from Andymark for about a week. When we get it all in it shouldn't take more than a few days to complete.

[goldenglove002]

I wasn't sure about this strategy prior to joining y'alls alliance for elimination, but it works amazingly. I really think some more practice with the human player/alignment stuff and the right alliance partners in St. Louis would have you taking a good look at Einstein. Keep up the good work!

[nlj007]

Originally Posted by topgun

So, why wasn't any of the defenders hitting you? The 900 human player was indicating that you needed to line up before shooting. Couldn't a defender have just rammed in and knocked the robot off enough to shut this down?

We experienced little movement when hit because we were backed in the corner with a very solid drivetrain. Our driver was able to maintain his aim after being hit. Having a defender on us did make it slightly harder, but it did not affect us much.

[Ginger Power]

Originally Posted by nlj007

We experienced little movement when hit because we were backed in the corner with a very solid drivetrain. Our driver was able to maintain his aim after being hit. Having a defender on us did make it slightly harder, but it did not affect us much.

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

. . . I think you are underestimating how hard it would be to actually play defense on the FCA. A well designed FCA should have a good drivetrain and should be able to launch the ball from a number of different spots to a number of different spots. I just don't think even an experienced defensive team would bother trying to block the FCA.
Blocking the robot (or two robots) on the receiving end of the FCA is a different story. Finding a way around defense from the receiving end is definitely more difficult. If there are two robots receiving from the FCA then the FCA would aim for the one that isn't being defensed against (or is more open). If one of the receiving robots is better at catching the ball, then the inferior receiving robot could play anti - defense (setting a pick) for the superior receiving robot allowing it to get room to catch or quickly corral the ball in order to shoot. This ties up one robot from the opposing alliance taking away triple assist opportunities for them and still allows for (in theory) quick 40 point cycles for the FCA team.
If there is one robot on the receiving end of the FCA then it all comes down to driver/drivetrain superiority between the defensive and offensive robot. This also would allow for the third member of the FCA alliance to strictly play defense against the opposing alliance.
The advantage of having a FCA in quals is huge because there are a lot of ways to do it depending on who the FCA is paired with. The disadvantages are glaringly obvious as well because the strategy relies on a teammate of the FCA to be able to quickly attain possession of the ball and consistently put it in the 10 pt goal which will be rare qualities (I realize this paragraph contradicts itself).

I predicted this on January 13th for the record

[Tom Line]

We made a couple truss passes at Center Line, but stopped immediately when we found that the Refs decided to call technical fouls on us for intentionally shooting outside the field if the human player missed the catch.

[markmcgary]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

We made a couple truss passes at Center Line, but stopped immediately when we found that the Refs decided to call technical fouls on us for intentionally shooting outside the field if the human player missed the catch.

I have video of HPs missing truss passes at IE. No penalties.

[SoccerTaco]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

We made a couple truss passes at Center Line, but stopped immediately when we found that the Refs decided to call technical fouls on us for intentionally shooting outside the field if the human player missed the catch.

They did not call it that way at Palmetto - where Secret Sauce was being saucy with those great full court passes. (Team 900 - loved your robot, your strategy, and just watching how far you could throw that ball - wow!!)

Do you know if anyone questioned the Refs at Center Line about that decision based on G11?


G11
BALLS may not be intentionally or repeatedly ejected from gameplay.
Violation: FOUL per instance.

Passing a BALL to a HUMAN PLAYER is within gameplay and not considered a violation of G11.

What does the CD Community think is the proper interpretation of G11 in regards to missed passes to the human player?

It seems to me if you were trying to pass it to the human player, but missed, that is not intentional, and therefore not a foul based on G11.

[markmcgary]

Originally Posted by SoccerTaco

G11
BALLS may not be intentionally or repeatedly ejected from gameplay.
Violation: FOUL per instance.

Passing a BALL to a HUMAN PLAYER is within gameplay and not considered a violation of G11.

What does the CD Community think is the proper interpretation of G11 in regards to missed passes to the human player?

It seems to me if you were trying to pass it to the human player, but missed, that is not intentional, and therefore not a foul based on G11.

I hope that passing a BALL to a HUMAN PLAYER is within gameplay and not considered a violation of G11, even if the HUMAN PLAYER misses the pass.

[bduddy]

I would think that if an HP misses one or two catches, that's not a foul. If it happens much more than that, that becomes "repeatedly" and is worthy of a foul.

[loyal]

Originally Posted by bduddy

I would think that if an HP misses one or two catches, that's not a foul. If it happens much more than that, that becomes "repeatedly" and is worthy of a foul.

Yea ditto. If your team is not practiced at this don't do it. But it sure does look cool.