2014 Central Valley Regional

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Bitbucket99

973 pick looks very fishy to me. Smells of collusion, but would the judges ever do anything? Don't think so.

I love that you post this anonymously. I put my name and reputation behind everything I post on these forums and it is sad to see someone cowardly taking potshots from the cover of anonymity.

I'm tired and will post a full explanation (not that we owe that to anyone) tomorrow as I know a lot of people were curious about how we pulled it off.

All I'll say now is my pit crew and drivers are champions and put up with hell this weekend but always kept a positive attitude and kept moving forward. No second was wasted and at no point was quitting ever considered. This is the most worn out they've ever been, but it's also been our most satisfying win.

My scouts are also great, but they had a less stressful weekend

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I love that you post this anonymously. I put my name and reputation behind everything I post on these forums and it is sad to see some cowardly taking potshots from the cover of anonymity.

I'm tired and will post a full explanation (not that we owe that to anyone) tomorrow as I know a lot of people were curious about how we pulled it off.

All I'll say now is my pit crew and drivers are champions and put up with hell this weekend but always kept a positive attitude and kept moving forward. No second was wasted and at no point was quitting ever considered. This is the most worn out they've ever been, but its also been our most satisfying win.

My scouts are also great, but they had a less stressful weekend

This game is incredibly physical, fun to watch, and easy to follow. FIRST did a fabulous job with this one!


Adam,
Before you post, let me say this:

As curious as I am about the logic behind the choice, it really doesn't matter.
We were all out run, out gunned, out done and then you won!
It was a hard fought battle and you came out the victor because YOU EARNED IT!! This is another shining example of what can be achieved if the work is put in to achieve it.

I want to go on the record as saying, Congratulations!!

[AdamHeard]

All right, here we go....

Around 1 PM on practice day we get all our mechanical changes done, tether and test a bunch in pit, and then go drive some on the practice field. We're loving it, it's just like practice bot (just without the shots being tuned the same yet).

We go to play our first real practice match and the driver complains of lag. We discuss with the FTA who shows that our trip time, battery voltage and cpu usage are all looking great. We play two more like this, same issue and now practice matches are over. Between each and every one of these matches we went to the practice field (on radio not tether) and it drove like a champ.

The actual symptoms weren't log, but rather three different states that rotated around during the match.

1) A several times a second jitter in all motor outputs, so if the driver was driving "full speed" the robot actually went about half.
2) Complete lack of control to motors.
3) Blissful moments of freedom that lasted a few seconds at best.

In our first qual match, we were unable to move the arm but were able to open the pneumatics so the ball was loose. We called an audible midmatch and asked 254 to ram us each time to knock the ball out and we ran 4-5 assist cycles this way.

We know switch into a calm panic mode, going down the logical list of items to try/test. I don’t remember what happened when exactly, but for the entire day the pit crew was operating with the same intensity as a timeout during elims. By the end of the day we had failed to perform in 8 consecutive matches, but remained hopeful that the NEXT fix will be the one that fixes it. We had been only changing a few things per match (new driverstation, new signal wiring, etc…) so that we could isolate the flaw, but now decided to shotgun fix as we were running out of quals to test in. In between nearly every match we drive in pit, and drive on the practice field (via radio) and it works GREAT. It’s not the same robot it seems like.

The final batch of fixes included replacing the PDB, along with some other details I’m forgetting. At this point every electrical component except the talons/victors had been replaced (some multiple times!)

Reading the above, I’m somewhat underselling how frustrating the problems were. The FTA was stumped, all of 254’s mentors and several other teams were stumped. We called experts from a far, they were stumped. Over 100 years of FRC mentor experience was working on our robot all day..We don’t know what fixed it, but we just took relief in that the problems are gone (once we worked, it worked flawlessly so we have faith we’re good to go. It’s also an not the same robot electrically in any way since we started).

Saturday night at the scouting meeting I give the option to the scouts to not make a picklist if they would rather go to bed, but despite us being 43rd (of 45th) at the time they decided that the team NEEDED to be ready for the moment when we work again, and ran one of the most thorough and informative scouting meetings we’ve ever run. Our list for 3rds matched nearly perfectly with 254’s, so that was cool to see.

Our first match sunday morning we work. Well, we drive around without issue at least! However, at this point our robot is tuned to make shots at all, so we can intake and truss toss at best. We decide to reduce shooter tension a huge amount to just do a soft truss shot and maybe a top goal. Our practice bot was reliably making 8-20’ shots driving and stationary without much lineup so this was a real bummer, but that late in quals we had to make such a decision. However, we’re now thinking (especially after watching 330 put on a show in San Diego) that we prefer this closer, softer shot.

Incredibly, the entire team was still in good spirits after this ordeal, and was ready to play. We just at the moment weren’t sure where we’d be in elims.

Full disclosure, we did practice with 254 prior to this event, but in no way was that collusion. We’ve practiced with them literally every season (except 2011, when we actually did win together!) and they have passed over picking us numerous times in the past (no hard feelings, better picks were there). 254 informed us they were looking for a team player with a solid intake that could run the ball up and down and do a soft truss shot, and since we were able to drive in our last 3 quals, had faith in our problems being gone. Our robot in elims was maybe 20% of our capability of our practice bots, so the team is excited for future events.

Here is something that will shock a lot of people. There were some great offensive robots there in 1671, 1323 and 696 but 254 didn’t want them. If we had been out comission, 254 would’ve used the #1 pick of the event to pick my favorite rookie EVER in 5136. A simple bot with a team JVN intake that also inbounded great. They ran assists better than anyone at the event and were great defenders. They almost beat the finalists alliance in quarters despite being thoroughly outgunned offensively in most peoples minds. These guys lost in elims, but won Rookie All Star and we are keeping in touch with them to make sure they go to champs. Awesome team, awesome robot.

This was the most difficult event for us in 973 history. It was a pressure cooker that would have wrecked most teams, and probably wrecked any single person on 973 but as a team we kept checking up on each other, covering each other when people needed breaks, and just toughing it out for the good of the team. It’s incredibly frustrating to run out of good ideas and have all your ideas yield no tangible results whatsoever. It’s tougher to then decide to shove you hand back in the fire to maybe not get burned again hoping that at some point it won’t burn you.

I am incredibly proud of all of the members of my team for making it happen. I’m also incredibly grateful that 254 believed in us and took that chance. 2135 was also a great 3rd that was an awesome team player that balanced inbounding and defense nicely. They also blended in just fine with the intensity that 254 and 973 bring to an eliminations alliance.

It is somewhat frustrating that many people assumed we were being disingenuous in what was really the proudest moment ever for our team, but we won’t let that affect us. We came through hell and won the event, no one can take that from my students. It was palpable that the entire event was cheering for us to lose in elims, but our entire alliance just ignored it and made it happen. I don’t understand how sandbagging makes sense if you’re shooting for the #1 pick of the event, but I’ll leave poor logic to the spineless who can’t stand behind their words.

Thanks again to everyone on other teams who killed themselves all day helping us, we could not have done it without you. Also thank you for the many people, both at the event and from a distance, who reached out to us and told us they believed in us, and knew that we played this right and any rumors of poor behaviour were thoroughly false.

[Treebeard]

Hello Adam,

I almost never use Chief Delphi, but I heard that you had responded to the rumors of sandbagging by your team and read your comprehensive response above. I am the teacher advisor and founder of team 1671, and I would first like to congratulate you and your team on your amazing, hard fought victory yesterday. We wanted so badly to win, especially on our home turf with our friends from Madera and Duncan, and especially against teams like yours and 254's that carry such stellar reputations and history. Second, I would like to agree with you that anyone who posts a serious allegation like was made against your team team, and does so anonymously, should keep their conspiracy theories to themselves. It was a low blow and an ugly thing to do. I hope whoever Bitbucket99 is will read these words and refrain from such despicable behavior in the future.

I must say, in all honesty, that I was suspicious of the situation, but I think if you put yourself in my shoes, you'll understand why. In our qualifying match where we were alliance partners against 254 there were times when your defense against 254 seemed ineffective. Later in the tournament, we were in a qualifying match against you and the defense your bot put on ours was brutal, to the point of heavy penalty points made against your alliance, and we were concerned for the safety of our bot. Then, the Poofs picked you and you went on to beat us in the finals. Hey... there were dots there that, if one were angry and disappointed, one could put together.

But then, on the other hand, I remember seeing your team huddled around your bot on the field late Saturday night, trying to figure out your problems. That certainly doesn't fit a sandbagging theory. I talked to one of your team moms, and she was so anxious about all the problems you guys were fighting through. And then, I read your passionate and obviously honest defense of the honor of your team.

So let me apologize for my suspicious thoughts. You should rename your robot: "The Phoenix." Honestly, I have no idea who Bitbucket99 is; I only hope it's no one from our team. The Bird Brains strive to live up to the core values of FIRST... co-opertition and gracious professionalism. But we are, after all, human (not birds)... prone to see the worst in our competitors (until they become our allies).

Finally, let me say how proud I am of our team and our Central Valley alliance. Perhaps irrationally, we in the Central Valley sometimes feel forgotten or disrespected by our neighbors on the coast. But there are smart, hard working young people here... and we aim to compete with anyone, anytime, anywhere. Sic 'em, DOC.

Sincerely,

Paul Lake
Teacher Advisor
Team 1671 "The Bird Brains"

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Treebeard

I must say, in all honesty, that I was suspicious of the situation, but I think if you put yourself in my shoes, you'll understand why. In our qualifying match where we were alliance partners against 254 there were times when your defense against 254 seemed ineffective. Later in the tournament, we were in a qualifying match against you and the defense your bot put on ours was brutal, to the point of heavy penalty points made against your alliance, and we were concerned for the safety of our bot. Then, the Poofs picked you and you went on to beat us in the finals. Hey... there were dots there that, if one were angry and disappointed, one could put together.

There's an easy explanation here. 973 played us on Friday, when they were mostly nonfunctional and played you on Saturday when they had resolved the problem.

[Treebeard]

Understood.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Cory

There's an easy explanation here. 973 played us on Friday, when they were mostly nonfunctional and played you on Saturday when they had resolved the problem.

Replace Friday with Saturday, and Saturday with Sunday. Funky Fri-Sun Regionals...

[Marc S.]

Team 5102 had a great time at our first ever FIRST competition. We all really enjoyed meeting other teams and seeing what solutions they had thought up for this year's game. I'm so proud of all our students, they all worked hard to earn the Highest Rookie Seed award.

Our Oculus Rift was a great hit, and we hope to have an even better robot fpv experience for our next competition. For those who weren't there, we plan on posting all of our fpv video (normal and Oculus ready) real soon!

We'd like to thank team 3562 and 2761 for picking us. We had a fun time competing with them in the eliminations. 3562, it was also a pleasure to see you win engineering inspiration, good luck at champs!

We'd also like to thank the following teams for helping us:
691 offered to let us use their bimba voucher since there team does not use pneumatics. We hope to get our shooter working with these for LA!

702 was a great alliance partner in qualifications and helped us strategize before alliance pickings. We almost seeded in the top 8, and would have been totally unprepared if it were not for Bagel Bytes help.

973 helped us during season and gave us some great advice during the competition.

1072 was quick to respond when we realized that we were one gear short of completing our drive gearboxes on Friday. Thanks!

1323 gave us a lot of help, from getting us wcp parts during the competition to teaching us how to mount a mini cim onto a versa planetary, it's no wonder why they almost won the event. We were all very impressed by their gracious professionalism.

There are many more, but these teams stood out to us the most. Thanks!


We had hoped to win the rookie all star award but after seeing team 5136 realized that we were not as deserving. Congratulations on your win and we hope to see you succeed at the championship as well.

I have had the pleasure to talk to many 1671 students and mentors over the past few years and all I can say is great job. The Bird Brains have been deserving of the chairman's award for a long time. Take into consideration their near win in the finals I think 1671 will be back in the spotlight in the near future. Congratulations.

To the winning alliance, 254, 973, and 2135, we were all inspired by your performance. Goes to show that your final seeding doesn't matter, any team can win an event.

As per the overwhelming blowback against 973, all I can say is that I am greatly disappointed by this. It was obvious to the entire event that the 973 guys were frustrated, and the sigh of relief was witnessed by all when they won. Congrats on your win and we can't wait to see you reach your potential at LA.

[Citrus Dad]

We're expecting a repeat of the 2012 Sac Regional with tough competition from you. (And maybe we'll be on the same side this time.) See you Davis!

BTW, we're streaming the competition, so come by and check in so we can talk about teaming with your scoring system in the future.

Originally Posted by Treebeard

Hello Adam,

Finally, let me say how proud I am of our team and our Central Valley alliance. Perhaps irrationally, we in the Central Valley sometimes feel forgotten or disrespected by our neighbors on the coast. But there are smart, hard working young people here... and we aim to compete with anyone, anytime, anywhere. Sic 'em, DOC.

Sincerely,

Paul Lake
Teacher Advisor
Team 1671 "The Bird Brains"

[ejSabathia]

This weekend was exciting, tough and exhausting for myself and my team. We enjoyed the competition and learned a lot about this game. Still not sure exactly how I feel about it, but we had a lot of fun.

I find it amusing and odd that there is/was so much buzz around our choice in alliance partners. FIRST robotics is a COMPETITION and we play to win. As many others have theorized we take scouting and strategy seriously. We have a dedicated team of mentors and students who put as much work into this part of our game as goes into the robot. With that said I stand behind the choices we made.

Last year, at the San Diego Regional, we (254) found ourselves in a similar situation to 973 this past weekend at CVR. We'd spent two days chasing mechanical issues and getting our design to function. We were struggling and our record showed it.

Saturday morning we approached the number one seed (987 the High Rollers) and plead our case. They knew that we'd be dangerous if we could sort out our issues. We ran our autonomous countless times on the practice field for them showing them our fixes and changes. They took a chance on the 18th ranked team and together we brought home gold.

Friday night Adam came to us and asked what they had to do or show us to be considered as a 2nd round pick. I'm throwing this point in for those ignorant enough to think, or say, that 973 was throwing matches to be picked. They were concerned that they would miss out on eliminations because of the issues with they were having.

We (254) had our scouting meeting, with Pat's delicious strategy brownies, and made our pick list. I'm certain our top two picks would astound most of you.

973 was at the top of that list, provided they could remain connected to the field and drive around, and we communicated this to Adam at the start of the day.

Second was a rookie team (5136) that, to our amazement stuck around until halfway through the second round of picking. These guys were awesome. They built the robot that every rookie (and many veteran teams )should have built. They were pretty much the perfect partner. A durable drive base, with a solid intake that could function as an inbounder or a low goal scorer. They played super smart, with great coaching and driving. Whenever they weren't passing a ball they were playing great defense and then were right back in position as soon as the ball was coming their way again. They were a rookie in number only. These guys are awesome and we are stoked they are coming to Championships.

With that said, I'm happy to start the 2014 season a champion. Our partners were awesome. Each stepped up and played their part in earning this win, I'd play with either of them again no questions asked. 973 & 2135 ... Thank-you and congrats.

~EJ

[roystur44]

I lost my voice today because I was rooting for the Blue Alliance in the finals. Even though we have great friends on 254 and 973 I found myself rooting for the underdogs. The Blue alliance had 1323 and their awesome puncher. It was exciting to hear the boom and watch the ball travel the length of the field, high over the goals and into the announcers video monitor. 1671 laser like shooter and fancy driving. Their El Toro intake was sucking balls up like a vacuum cleaner. Then there was 3970's all around play and heavy D. It was exciting to see 3970 deliver a full speed blow at the right place and exactly timed making the mighty 254 robot miss their money shot.

The Blue alliance had 3 very fast robots who could transition to any position. The Red alliance had a 3 shot auto, a high shooter that was almost unstoppable, and 973's powerful drive train .The Greybots could peel off a defense robot and drive them into a wall. The Blue alliance had great strategy and great shooting but they lacked the consistent 3 ball auto. After the first match they also didn't change up the strategy while the Red alliance made adjustments. In my opinion the blue alliance should have focused their double defense to 973 to prevent the truss shot and jam the inbound to stop the 40 point cycle

One of the things I didn't like was the refs let the defense play hard but a lot of the elimination matches were decided by the ref calls. The points for penalties are too large and the calls can be inconsistent with all the action going on. The announcers also don't announce what penalties were called on what team and the audience wonders what just happen.

One last comment was during the final rubber match you could clearly see there were com problems and both 3970 and 1323 sat idle for precious seconds during the match. I was wondering why a field fault wasn't called. After the first match the rubber match was a bit anti climatic. We can only dream of a rematch WWE Cage Match style. This game is brutal.

Congratulation to 254, 973, 2135, 1323, 1671, 3970. What a show you guys put on.


Two thumbs up to all the CVR staff. This regional is well run and the atmosphere is always like a big party.

[JesseK]

Adam, as someone who has driver coached through two events like that, I tip my hat to you and your team. It is never easy to push through something like that. Congratulations on your win!

[dudefise]

Originally Posted by ejSabathia

Second was a rookie team (5136) that, to our amazement stuck around until halfway through the second round of picking. These guys were awesome. They built the robot that every rookie (and many veteran teams )should have built. They were pretty much the perfect partner. A durable drive base, with a solid intake that could function as an inbounder or a low goal scorer. They played super smart, with great coaching and driving. Whenever they weren't passing a ball they were playing great defense and then were right back in position as soon as the ball was coming their way again. They were a rookie in number only. These guys are awesome and we are stoked they are coming to Championships.

We picked them and were honestly extremely surprised that they lasted that long. In our scouting meeting there was extreme debate over whether we should take them 1st or 2nd. Ultimately our representative decided to take a gamble on the 8th seed, figuring that they needed a good, accurate (high goal)shooter more than support and so we took 2085 first. Our scouts could not have been higher on 5136 though.

Working with them was amazing, in everything they seemed like a veteran team. Their drivers were really good, as was the drive coach. Great team to work with and I wish them all the best in the future, and hope to work with them again soon.

[Ether]

Does anyone know: Is there an FRC-wide policy (applicable to all FRC competition events) regarding the process for filling the "extra slots" in the schedule? Or is the policy a local decision?

For example, at CAMA there were 83 Qual matches. 83*6=498 "slots" to assign teams to.

But there were 45 teams. 498 div 45 = 11 rem 3. So, 3 "extra slots".

Who decides which teams fill those 3 extra slots? For example, are they assigned automatically by the scheduling program? And what if one of those selected teams cannot, for some reason, participate in one of these "surrogate" matches - are they penalized in some way?

Or do the organizers at the venue ask for volunteers?

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by Ether

Does anyone know: Is there an FRC-wide policy (applicable to all FRC competition events) regarding the process for filling the "extra slots" in the schedule? Or is the policy a local decision?

For example, at CAMA there were 83 Qual matches. 83*6=498 "slots" to assign teams to.

But there were 45 teams. 498 div 45 = 11 rem 3. So, 3 "extra slots".

Who decides which teams fill those 3 extra slots? For example, are they assigned automatically by the scheduling program? And what if one of those selected teams cannot, for some reason, participate in one of these "surrogate" matches - are they penalized in some way?

Or do the organizers at the venue ask for volunteers?

The way I've had it explained to me is that they are randomly filled by the FMS and teams always play their surrogate match as their 3rd match. Don't know what would happen if they couldn't participate.