Were to store practice bot at regional?

[pyroslev]

Originally Posted by nixiebunny

Based on the responses here, it sounds like it's more sporting to do the harvesting at home. We'll do that for our next regional.

Glad you made the right call.

Everyone else,
Forgetting the Robot and Tournament rules for a moment, keep this in mind:

Judges, volunteers and other persons involved in every regional read these threads. Key staff are asked to keep an eye open for actions and behaviour to share with the judges. This is usually in reference to great things and acts of kindness by a team to help another.
Bringing the entire robot and keeping it within a mile so you can use parts off of it, or practice at the hotel falls into the other category of something a volunteer would report to judges. In deliberations, such a piece of information can act as the losing coin toss that will swing an award to a teams that merely brought their allowed withholding rather than their whole practice robot. Such an award could be one that would qualify a team to go to St. Louis.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by kevin.li.rit

Wouldn't the 30 spare gearboxes all count your total robot weight if you intended to use them in different configurations?

Originally Posted by martin417

No, they are COTS items.

If they are versa planetaries for example they are only COTS items if they aren't assembled. If they had previously been assembled you can return them to being COTS parts by disassembling them to the state they are in when purchased. This applies to all items that are purchased un-assembled which applies to many transmissions.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by martin417

No, they are COTS items.

That has nothing to do with them counting towards the weight of your robot. If they are intended as interchangeable parts (a concept which is not fully defined in the rules), they all count.

[martin417]

Originally Posted by bduddy

That has nothing to do with them counting towards the weight of your robot. If they are intended as interchangeable parts (a concept which is not fully defined in the rules), they all count.

So when you read the rule, what you see is "unlimited COTS items and raw material, unless you plan to use those items on your robot."?

[FrankJ]

The rules really don't address where you keep your practice bot other than not at the competition. You can go & harvest COTS parts off of it to your hearts delight. Just as long as they still meet the definition of COTs when they come into the competition.

Aside from the static 45 lb allowance, the manufactured parts on the robot are off limits just the same as anything manufactured in your hotel room, Build site whatever. Which means any manufactured items should be pulled before the competition, not selected from a larger set of parts during the competition. As with many things in First you are on your honor to follow the rules.

[Qbot2640]

Guys - while some may not like it, it is clearly against the rules to use a practice robot for spare parts in this manner. In Palmetto our LRI instructed us to weigh any team's withholding allowance that we deemed to appear potentially exceeding the 45# limit...kind of hard to verify if it is in the trailer or the hotel.

Going to "practicality" now, however - it is obviously difficult to verify what goes in and out of the venue (unless it is particularly large) so this requires teams to employ the honor system...and with the degree of misinterpretation shown in this thread I fear there will be a lot of violation going on.

Follow the rules - plan a STATIC set of fabricated/modified/altered/assembled parts that is less than 45# and bring that set of parts in with you at registration to show inspectors (and be weighed by inspectors if requested). Anything COTS from the practice robot that you want to use have disassembled before the event and bring it with your extras. Leave everything else at home.

I'd love to hear Al comment....

[Justin Montois]

Normally, I despise rules that cannot be enforced consistently. Where I make exceptions are Bagging the Robot, and the withholding allowance. While both are nearly impossible to enforce, they are in place to ensure that all teams at the event are playing by the same rules.

All teams get 1 robot and 45 pounds of fabricated spare parts for each event.

Other rules are in place to encourage fair play. For example
T11
At events, Teams may only produce FABRICATED ITEMS in the pit areas or provided machine shops, as defined in the Administrative Manual, Section 4.8: The Pit.

This means that if your team has access to machine shop within driving distance that other teams do not have then T11 eliminates that advantage.

A practice robot in the trailer in the parking lot is access to more than 45 pounds of parts and therefor illegal. No need for the Q & A here.

[mrnoble]

This is ridiculous. If you intend to bring a whole robot's worth of spare parts to the competition, and keep them offsite, thus bypassing a clear rule in both letter and spirit, then go ahead and go all the way: don't bag your bot. Keep working on it after Bag & Tag day! Fix it until it's perfect. Modify it (or better yet, rebuild it entirely) based on what you see in the reveal videos and early rounds of competition. Then bag it the night before you leave for your regional, and backdate the robot lockout form. You and your team will be the only ones that know...

If that's how you play.

The purpose of Bag & Tag and the withholding allowance are to emphasize that this is a competition in which the honesty and honor of the teams are on public display. The winners of the competition are those that worked the hardest, pushed themselves the most, and had some good luck. The rest of us can go home proud of our best efforts, or wowed by the levels that are possible to reach, ready to try harder next year.

I am discouraged to know that there are so many who don't intend to play this way. Not for the my sake, or the sake of my team. We will do our best within the rules, and win or lose will be proud. I'm worried and upset for those of you who don't see the damage that you are doing to the students under your guidance and care.

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

This is ridiculous. If you intend to bring a whole robot's worth of spare parts to the competition, and keep them offsite, thus bypassing a clear rule in both letter and spirit, then go ahead and go all the way: don't bag your bot. Keep working on it after Bag & Tag day! Fix it until it's perfect. Modify it (or better yet, rebuild it entirely) based on what you see in the reveal videos and early rounds of competition. Then bag it the night before you leave for your regional, and backdate the robot lockout form. You and your team will be the only ones that know...

If that's how you play.

The purpose of Bag & Tag and the withholding allowance are to emphasize that this is a competition in which the honesty and honor of the teams are on public display. The winners of the competition are those that worked the hardest, pushed themselves the most, and had some good luck. The rest of us can go home proud of our best efforts, or wowed by the levels that are possible to reach, ready to try harder next year.

I am discouraged to know that there are so many who don't intend to play this way. Not for the my sake, or the sake of my team. We will do our best within the rules, and win or lose will be proud. I'm worried and upset for those of you who don't see the damage that you are doing to the students under your guidance and care.

Your hyperbole and continued assumption of the "spirit" of this rule aren't really helping the conversation.

You are free to operate in your own frame of reference, but not to judge others operating outside of yours. The truth is none of us will know the real answer to the question until a specific Q&A question is asked and answered.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by BigJ

Your hyperbole and continued assumption of the "spirit" of this rule aren't really helping the conversation.

You are free to operate in your own frame of reference, but not to judge others operating outside of yours. The truth is none of us will know the real answer to the question until a specific Q&A question is asked and answered.

True, there seems to be a misinterpretation on one side or the other and I'd be interested in knowing the intent of the rule.

[shades23]

Why dont we ask first?

[GearsOfFury]

Originally Posted by martin417

So you are saying that the LRI has the authority to waive the rules? I didn't realize that. I thought the LRI was there to enforce the rules.

The LRI often (always?) has the hotline back to HQ and can consult with them on these issues. The LRI may also make judgment calls when a situation is not black and white. HQ and event officials can make exceptions to rules for exceptional cases... and they seem to do so only if in the pursuit of inspiration. The information provided in this case is incomplete so how can we judge?