Restructured Alliances in Quals

[Jhultink]

Hey CD,

I was recently got back from a Debate Tournament (anyone else here crazy enough to do NCFCA and FRC?). The ranking system there is very interesting and I though it could potentially be applied to FRC qualifying rounds.

Basically the qualifiers would be divided into 'sections'. Each team would compete once in every section so that after Section 1 every team would have competed once, and after Section 2, twice etc...

Now, here's the interesting part:

Sections 1, 2, and 3: completely random alliance section.

Sections 4 and on: Alliances would be made of teams with similar ranks. So if possible we would have two alliances of 3-0 teams compete. If there were not enough 3-0 teams, the 2-1 team with the highest OPR would compete. This would then happen with 2-1 teams, then 1-2 teams, and 0-3 teams, so the good teams compete with good teams against good teams, and bad with bad against bad. So basically it woulf be power-matching, opposite of what we do in elims, power-protecting (1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, etc.)

Power matching would have some pros and cons though:

PROS:
-Good teams would never have an "easy match," so it makes the better teams work harder and have a challenge.
-Rookie teams would have easier matches, and not feel outmatched as much
-The qual matches with the good teams would be EPIC, and potentially could be like watching the Elim Finals

CONS:
-Depending on how it is done, there might have to be a break after every Section to compute results
-The qual matches with the bad teams would be kind of boring.

What are your thoughts on this? Would it work? What changes would be needed? Pro and cons?

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Jhultink

Hey CD,

I was recently got back from a Debate Tournament (anyone else here crazy enough to do NCFCA and FRC?). The ranking system there is very interesting and I though it could potentially be applied to FRC qualifying rounds.

Basically the qualifiers would be divided into 'sections'. Each team would compete once in every section so that after Section 1 every team would have competed once, and after Section 2, twice etc...

Now, here's the interesting part:

Sections 1, 2, and 3: completely random alliance section.

Sections 4 and on: Alliances would be made of teams with similar ranks. So if possible we would have two alliances of 3-0 teams compete. If there were not enough 3-0 teams, the 2-1 team with the highest OPR would compete. This would then happen with 2-1 teams, then 1-2 teams, and 0-3 teams, so the good teams compete with good teams against good teams, and bad with bad against bad. So basically it woulf be power-matching, opposite of what we do in elims, power-protecting (1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, etc.)

Power matching would have some pros and cons though:

PROS:
-Good teams would never have an "easy match," so it makes the better teams work harder and have a challenge.
-Rookie teams would have easier matches, and not feel outmatched as much
-The qual matches with the good teams would be EPIC, and potentially could be like watching the Elim Finals

CONS:
-Depending on how it is done, there might have to be a break after every Section to compute results
-The qual matches with the bad teams would be kind of boring.

What are your thoughts on this? Would it work? What changes would be needed? Pro and cons?

The issue is that win/loss record does not reflect robot quality or skill, this is why we(most) scout and don't just pick based on rankings.

[Jhultink]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

The issue is that win/loss record does not reflect robot quality or skill, this is why we(most) scout and don't just pick based on rankings.

Under the current system?

[Joseph1825]

I won't comment on your entire suggestion right now, but I will say that in almost every sport (including FRC) I would prefer the bracket to go:
1v5
3v7

2v6
4v8

Originally Posted by Joseph1825

I won't comment on your entire suggestion right now, but I will say that in almost every sport (including FRC) I would prefer the bracket to go:
1v5
3v7

2v6
4v8

The reason it's done the way it is (1v8, 2v7, etc.) is to "reward" the better teams in a sense.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Jhultink

Under the current system?

Under every system FIRST has used. The ranking system in quals does not give you the best 8 teams to pick alliances, it never does and it never will. Matches are about luck and skill more luck than skill, especially this year. Yes the truley good robots/teams will find away to win but sometime you can't win when your alliance partners would be more helpful if they just didn't move the whole match.