Possible FMS problems.

[Canon reeves]

Our team competed at the Arkansas Regional and we ran practice matches all Thursday, no problems at all. There was no score keeping during these matches and we did good. During our first qualification match we ran great until the last 15 seconds we lost power to the C-Rio, and all Comm. and Code. During the next match our battery fell out. And in every other qualification match we would run, then our C-Rio would reboot. Sometimes it would happen when we took hard hits, others we would just drive forward and then reboot. So first we replaced the C-Rio, same problem, all of the wiring was fine, had multiple inspectors confirm that, Then we replaced the PD board, took it to the practice field and it worked fine, we ran at full speed into the low goal multiple times, it was just fine. Then we went onto the field on saturday and same problem happened. We replaced the main breaker, same problem. So then we got picked for elims. and during the time in-between our match, we ran on the practice field with our alliance members at least 20 minutes, just fine. We went out on the field, drove a little bit, and re booted. same thing happened next match. Any ideas what could be the problem?

[M. Lillis]

Although I don't have any solution or hypothesis for your problem, I did notice something in one of our matches last weekend. The FMS messed up the hot goals (As seen here).

None were hot for the first ~5 seconds, then the left was hot for the last ~5 seconds. But right as the bell rings for teleop to start, the right turns yellow, indicating that it is hot. If you look to the left of the frame, you can tell (watch a few times) that the same thing happened for the blue alliance.

[Tom Line]

The FMS system this year could definitely use improvement, however it would not cause your robot to reboot. You have a wiring or power distribution problem that you still haven't discovered. They can be tricky!

[Canon reeves]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

The FMS system this year could definitely use improvement, however it would not cause your robot to reboot. You have a wiring or power distribution problem that you still haven't discovered. They can be tricky!

While the C-Rio is rebooting, it isn't the only thing, in several matches the d-link did as well, and it seemed like we would randomly just shut down and not work, and under diagnostics the robot light would be green, not the bridge. I'm just wondering if there could be something in our code having a bad reaction with FMS? I would completely agree it is a power or wiring issue if we hadn't been running perfectly fine any time other than when connected to the field.

[Canon reeves]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater
here is a link to one of the matches we played in. We are the robot with the huge orange net, at around 1:55 in the video, we lost all communication.

[MikeE]

Originally Posted by Canon reeves

While the C-Rio is rebooting, it isn't the only thing, in several matches the d-link did as well, and it seemed like we would randomly just shut down and not work, and under diagnostics the robot light would be green, not the bridge. I'm just wondering if there could be something in our code having a bad reaction with FMS? I would completely agree it is a power or wiring issue if we hadn't been running perfectly fine any time other than when connected to the field.

Did you work with the CSA (Control System Advisor aka "orange hat") at your event? They are experts in robot troubleshooting.

From your description it does sound like a power/wiring problem, possibly a connection to the radio or a short to the frame.

Take a look at the Driver station log viewer for the matches where the problem occurred. Details of how to do this can be found at the WPI screensteps pages

It might also be a good idea to cross post this in the Technical Forums.

[Richard Wallace]

^+1 to what Mike said above.

We had a similar issue in one match. Afterwards we found an intermittent short to our frame that had gone undetected during inspection. We fixed that, and never saw the problem again.

[RobotKnight2014]

At the Utah regional right? I was wondering if you ever fixed that issue, glad to hear you got it figured out.

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

^+1 to what Mike said above.

We had a similar issue in one match. Afterwards we found an intermittent short to our frame that had gone undetected during inspection. We fixed that, and never saw the problem again.

[Greg McKaskle]

The cRIO does not have a shock sensor. The data sheet showing the shock and vibe testing is here .. http://sine.ni.com/ds/app/doc/p/id/ds-354/lang/en.

If you are in a relatively static-free environment, you can clean debris from the cRIO in about five minutes. I almost always find lots of glitter and wire bits. I have seen cases where the reboots ceased for the remainder of the matches. I have also seen cases where nothing improved. Procedure link is below.

http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/all...257673007935A1

Greg McKaskle

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by RobotKnight2014

At the Utah regional right? I was wondering if you ever fixed that issue, glad to hear you got it figured out.

Our team is in Michigan -- the issue I mentioned occurred at the Southfield District in Week 1. The intermittent chassis short was caused by some wiring that had previously provided power to a custom circuit (LED string), which had been removed after it was damaged during a practice match.

What was the issue seen at Utah?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Canon,
The issue you describe is usually attributed to one or more of the following problems in no particular order.
1. The cRio is bumping into robot frame or is attached to robot frame electrically.
2. Wire whisker is touching the opposite polarity on the power supply wiring at either the cRio end or the PD end.
3. Power wiring is not inserted into the connector properly, a tug on the wiring will show this problem.
4. Rare manufacturing defects have been observed on the main breaker. while the robot is thruned on and booted, trying lightly tapping the red reset button on the breaker. If the lights on the robot blink, replace the main breaker.
5. Improperly terminated battery wiring. Check everything from the battery to the PD. If it moves, it is intermittent.
6. An intermittent short exists in the branch wiring or you have a defective motor controller or motor that is showing a short in one direction. Try removing all breakers and reinserting one at a time to locate the offending branch.
7. If you are using multi motor transmissions, check that the motors are wired properly so that they are not running in opposite directions.
8. You have an intermittent power wiring to the DLink or you have not wired the power convertor to the dedicated +12 volt output on the PD.

When you have a shock intermittent, use a large screwdriver to tap the handle (or other insulated tool) on various parts of the robot until you find the sensitive area of the robot. You may find swarf in the cRio, PD or DSC or you may find improper wiring on the outputs of one of the cRio modules. If the condition only occurs when you are driving, the problem is in the drive train or the cRio to robot frame short.

[Canon reeves]

There has been a lot of mention of a frame short, could we test for this by testing the frame with a multimeter? we did that and it wasn't conducting anything, we checked the battery and all the connections to the pd board with it and got a consistent 12.5 volts. After the testing when the robot drove forward and shut off, we tried turning it back on, it took a few times but after it did turn back on we had no connection whatsoever, we tried rebooting, reset the radio, re-deployed code, exited the driver station then came back in. Under the diagnostic page on the driver station there was no light for the bridge, but there was a red light beside "robot". I've been trying to get it to shut off by shaking and dropping, and it still isn't rebooting like it is when I drive it. Is there anything else in the driver station we can use to diagnose the problem? Thank you guys so much, the team really appreciate's your help and GP!

[G_rupp]

Originally Posted by Canon reeves

There has been a lot of mention of a frame short, could we test for this by testing the frame with a multimeter? we did that and it wasn't conducting anything, we checked the battery and all the connections to the pd board with it and got a consistent 12.5 volts. After the testing when the robot drove forward and shut off, we tried turning it back on, it took a few times but after it did turn back on we had no connection whatsoever, we tried rebooting, reset the radio, re-deployed code, exited the driver station then came back in. Under the diagnostic page on the driver station there was no light for the bridge, but there was a red light beside "robot". I've been trying to get it to shut off by shaking and dropping, and it still isn't rebooting like it is when I drive it. Is there anything else in the driver station we can use to diagnose the problem? Thank you guys so much, the team really appreciate's your help and GP!

Are you using any of the DIO connectors? I have seen instances where the +5V wire from the PWM cable will short intermittently to ground. This is normally seen when the White and Black wires are used for a Limit switch. The RED wire is cut and left hanging instead of being cut back and taped. The end of the wire will come in contact with the Black wire causing the 5VDC in the Digital Sidecar to turn off.

[Canon reeves]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Canon,
The issue you describe is usually attributed to one or more of the following problems in no particular order.
1. The cRio is bumping into robot frame or is attached to robot frame electrically.
2. Wire whisker is touching the opposite polarity on the power supply wiring at either the cRio end or the PD end.
3. Power wiring is not inserted into the connector properly, a tug on the wiring will show this problem.
4. Rare manufacturing defects have been observed on the main breaker. while the robot is thruned on and booted, trying lightly tapping the red reset button on the breaker. If the lights on the robot blink, replace the main breaker.

Yesterday we tested for all of these, we replaced all the connectors from the CRIO to the PD board, we tried shaking the CRIO to get it to reboot, we also tried the tapping on the reset, and pulling on the wires. I think what we will have to do next is test the PD board connections to the motor controllers and all of the breakers. We also put in two new vector motor controllers this week and our mentor also had us wire the fans to a 30 amp slot on the PD board.

[RobotKnight2014]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

Our team is in Michigan -- the issue I mentioned occurred at the Southfield District in Week 1. The intermittent chassis short was caused by some wiring that had previously provided power to a custom circuit (LED string), which had been removed after it was damaged during a practice match.

What was the issue seen at Utah?

There was a team at Utah who lost communication sporadically during teleop, the mentor who I saw talking to the FTA about it looked like your profile picture. I also thought there was a team called the average Joes there, must have been mistaken.