2014 Waterloo Regional

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

Goal didn't count.

But 1114 just lost because 1241 broke their 'antenna', I don't get it. Isn't there a rule that you can't cause the other team to get a penalty? you penalize 1241 for causing the damage, but ALSO give 1114 a 50 point penalty for being outside 20" frame perimeter... don't get it. ugh.

Here is the rule:

G14
Strategies aimed solely at forcing the opposing ALLIANCE to violate a rule are not in the spirit of FRC and are not allowed. Rule violations forced in this manner will not result in assessment of a penalty on the target ALLIANCE.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL

I don't think 1241's actions can be classified as a "strategy aimed" towards causing 1114 to take a foul, and certainly "solely" aimed at that goal. Thus it didn't violate <G14>, and not triggering <G14> means the foul on 1114 counts.

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

Goal didn't count.

But 1114 just lost because 1241 broke their 'antenna', I don't get it. Isn't there a rule that you can't cause the other team to get a penalty? you penalize 1241 for causing the damage, but ALSO give 1114 a 50 point penalty for being outside 20" frame perimeter... don't get it. ugh.

I believe that rule only applies to strategies aimed at trying to force your opponent to commit fouls. I doubt 1241 did that intentionally.

[Richard Wallace]

Why does 1114's G24 violation result in a 50 pt technical? Was it continuous or repeated?

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by paperBot

seriously hope that 1114 has better luck at the worlds.

1114 still has a chance to win ONWI in 2 weeks time.

Brutal luck though.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

Did that last blue low goal score go in or not??

What I saw? 3683 pushed the BALL into the LOW GOAL just as time expired. 1114 was defending this action. The BALL went in the front face of the LOW GOAL, and came out the left face of it, instead of out the back face through the ALLIANCE STATION.

According to the announcement at the event?

1241 initiated damaging contact with 1114 outside the FRAME PERIMETER (20 pts awarded to RED)

1114 was > 20" outside their FRAME PERIMETER (50 pts awarded to BLUE)

LOW GOAL at T=0 was NOT SCORED.

[Bongle]

Those eliminations were crazy fun to watch, and this was probably the hardest regional I've ever been at. Our robot was temperamental, the qualifying pace was _insane_ (about 30 minutes between matches. Thanks to a replay, we had 11 matches in a single day, and I think one of our alliance partners in our replay had 12 matches in a day), and the field was super-deep. With an average of 5 matches between each robot going up, it meant that most matches contained a veritable powerhouse (254/1114/2056), and due to the crazy depth at Waterloo, the rest of the matches contained a robot that'd be a thread to win any other regional on the planet. 3683, 4678, 781 pre-damage, 1241, 1285, 4917, and probably others I'm forgetting would all be big threats anywhere.

Outsider review: I had a friend come who had never heard of the game (or FIRST), and she thought the game was quite followable and was cheering at all the right spots. Granted these eliminations were among the best I've seen after 11 years going to competitions, so that may have played into it too. The (what felt like) 40-50-minute ref delay after the 4039/3683 semifinal was reviewed as pretty annoying, but overall she thought the game and event was pretty good. Looking at the match results it looks like it was only a 18-minute delay, but it felt _much_ longer.

[pluto7443]

Originally Posted by Bongle

Those eliminations were crazy fun to watch, and this was probably the hardest regional I've ever been at. Our robot was temperamental, the qualifying pace was _insane_ (about 30 minutes between matches. Thanks to a replay, we had 11 matches in a single day, and I think one of our alliance partners in our replay had 12 matches in a day), and the field was super-deep. With an average of 5 matches between each robot going up, it meant that most matches contained a veritable powerhouse (254/1114/2056), and due to the crazy depth at Waterloo, the rest of the matches contained a robot that'd be a thread to win any other regional on the planet. 3683, 4678, 781 pre-damage, 1241, 1285, 4917, and probably others I'm forgetting would all be big threats anywhere.

Outsider review: I had a friend come who had never heard of the game (or FIRST), and she thought the game was quite followable and was cheering at all the right spots. Granted these eliminations were among the best I've seen after 11 years going to competitions, so that may have played into it too. The (what felt like) 40-50-minute ref delay after the 4039/3683 semifinal was reviewed as pretty annoying, but overall she thought the game and event was pretty good. Looking at the match results it looks like it was only a 18-minute delay, but it felt _much_ longer.

As a member of 4917, thanks for putting us on that list! This was our first regional as a team. We are going to Windsor, and because we got the rookie all-star, we get to go to World's too! In the elimination rounds in Waterloo, we were captain of the #3 alliance. Looking back, we would have picked 3683 over 1285. Another thing I was wondering about in the rules: would a shot that went over the truss and into a low goal count as an 11 point shot?

[Kpchem]

Originally Posted by pluto7443

Another thing I was wondering about in the rules: would a shot that went over the truss and into a low goal count as an 11 point shot?

No, because of Rule 3.1.4 in the manual

2014 Game Manual - Rule 3.1.4

A BALL is considered SCORED in an ALLIANCE’S GOAL if

• A. a ROBOT causes one (1) of their ALLIANCE’S BALLS to cross completely and remain completely through the opening(s) of one (1) of their ALLIANCE’S GOALS without intervening TEAM member contact
• B. the ALLIANCE ROBOT last in contact with the BALL was entirely between the TRUSS and their ALLIANCE’S HIGH GOALS, and
• C. the BALL is not in contact with any ROBOT from that ALLIANCE.

Emphasis mine. If you are making a valid truss shot, your robot is not entirely between the truss and your alliance's high goals.

Good luck at Windsor and Championship!

[PayneTrain]

Glad to see we are all still playing nice in Ontario.

[Bongle]

Also, a took a video of a particularly problematic sensor on the robot: we had a two 3d-printed gears that communicated position from our shooter frame to a potentiometer. The circular gear that was on the pot input kept shifting (when it was on setscrews) and breaking (when we fixed it very firmly) on Friday, which is why our shooter was out of commission all day.

After we were out, I had the drive team do a dry fire and taped it with my sony action cam's 120fps mode to see if we could find evidence for why that gear seemed to be taking so much abuse. The video is inconclusive, but still neat to watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEogRuD8lqU

[Tungrus]

@ 1:17 in video 1114 was driving to stop blue robot from picking the ball. Though blue robot was moving with extended appendage, it was 1114 who drove into them. From my couch it looks like refs made correct call.

[TikiTech]

Originally Posted by Tungrus

@ 1:17 in video 1114 was driving to stop blue robot from picking the ball. Though blue robot was moving with extended appendage, it was 1114 who drove into them. From my couch it looks like refs made correct call.

I wonder how long the argument was trying to show that they were forced, by damaged caused by another robot, G14. to violate rule R3. Though G14 would not apply because the damage was not caused by "Strategies aimed solely at forcing the opposing ALLIANCE to violate a rule"

So much influence the new rules update... Some regionals there was little defense!

Still such a supreme round of matches. Well done to all competitors!

Aloha!

[Reanna]

Which teams received wild card slots? (If any)

[ErvinI]

Originally Posted by Reanna

Which teams received wild card slots? (If any)

3683 did, I believe that was it (due to 254 winning CVR).

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by ErvinI

3683 did, I believe that was it (due to 254 winning CVR).

That's correct.