Game Manual - Team UPDATE - 2014-03-18

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

This update is interesting. There was an instance during the semifinals at Orlando where we were playing a blockade style of defense on 1772 and 744 to prevent them from intaking the ball . . .

It actually sounds like you were in violation of G25 -

G25
ROBOTS on the same ALLIANCE may not blockade the FIELD in an attempt to stop the flow of the MATCH. This rule has no effect on individual ROBOT-ROBOT interaction.
Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL

I like this update. I think it keeps serious offenses as a Technical Foul (50 points) but moves minor infractions to a Foul (20 points).

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by Racer26

It does seem, though, that the TECHNICAL FOUL called on 1114s alliance in SF1-2 at ONTO would have been reduced to a FOUL by this rule change.

Errant blue TRUSS shot lands in red ROBOT and is immediately ejected seems like a FOUL and not a TECHNICAL FOUL, by my reading of this change.

I agree that refs seem to be really reluctant to dish out POSSESSIONs to HERDing ROBOTs of an ALLIANCE matching the colour of the BALL. They seem to be much more frequently dishing out the G12 foul for HERDing or TRAPping and opponent's BALL. I don't understand why this is.

I think this example displays that the onus will be on the offending team to ensure that the action is viewed as inconsequential. What you will see when reviewing the infraction is that even if it was deemed unintentional, the robot then (possibly unintentionally) drops the ball in such a way that their robot is positioned in between the ball and the incoming robot. They also then proceed to play active defense (the correct move given the rules at the time).

However I view any possession that significantly slows a cycle as consequential, regardless of the score. I would argue that going forward, it may be in the best interest for the robot causing the infraction to actually step away from the play to ensure that the ref sees that the unintentional possession of the ball did not give them a competitive advantage.

You are definitely still at the mercy of the ref.

Here's a link to the video at the time of the infraction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...vxVzpyfks#t=95

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Adam Freeman

I'd be all for that, if they also loosened up the purse strings for handing out inital assists for inbounders one-bumping a ball to the next team.

Seems the only way to get that inital inbound assist is for the inbounding team to hold the ball in their machine.

If the purpose of the game is to work together, we need to make it easier for teams to contribute to their alliance.

Although, I'm not convince the refs can tell the difference between deliberate and accidental bumping of a ball. This would probably just add more penalties to the game.

Agreed. According to the rules, the same definition for POSSESSION and HERDING is supposed to apply whether you're touching your own game ball or the opponents'.

Sometimes a team gets called for any little bump of the opponents' ball. That is not the way it's supposed to be called, in my opinion, because one tap is not possession.

The change to a regular foul for unintentionally or inconsequential POSSESSION is a good change. However, I suspect that referees will have a hard time distinguishing between POSSESSION and CONTACT when making this call, and a lot 20 point fouls will be called when a robot touches the other team's ball for any reason and with any result.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by IbleedPink233

I expect that some Refs are going to start handing out Fouls like candy and the defensive game will have to completely change since the Ball becomes a Foul button.

There are no situations in which this rule change will cause more penalties. The defending robot still needs to POSSESS the ball to get a penalty call, which is exactly what the old rules said. All that this rule does is minimize the impact of unintentional and inconsequential POSSESSIONs by opponent robots by making this infraction worth 20 points instead of 50.

There will be no appreciable change in game flow since the base rule is still the same (don't POSSESS the opponent's ball). If the refs start handing out FOULs like candy, I for one will be happy, because under the old rules, every single one of those would have been a TECHNICAL FOUL.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by inkling16

There are no situations in which this rule change will cause more penalties. The defending robot still needs to POSSESS the ball to get a penalty call, which is exactly what the old rules said. All that this rule does is minimize the impact of unintentional and inconsequential POSSESSIONs by opponent robots by making this infraction worth 20 points instead of 50.

That's certainly the way I read it and I think it's intended, but I've watched some inconsequential/unintentional G12s go uncalled that refs might now think they need to call. I see why people are concerned.

Q466: Does TU 3/18 lower the threshold for G12 (a no-call in Week 1 could be a call now, for the identical situation), or raise the threshold for receiving a G12 tech foul (a tech foul in Week 1 could be a foul now)?
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Questions.php

[cglrcng]

To paraphrase and try to put it in context:

They have merely reset the severity of the G12 penalties.. If your act is an inconsequential or unintended action, but, still manages to keep the opposing alliance away from their ball (not a bad thing in this game), but, if your action is deemed to appear or be intentional or worse absolutely deliberate and strategically planned by nature of appearance...They can raise the severity back to where it was, and even higher.

I say don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Some of those fouls now won't necessarily flat cost you the match...But some still will. Try to be nice.

Play your game, don't attempt to run or ruin theirs. This is a 1 game piece per Alliance, work well together, inbound get 3 assists / truss/ catch/ score fast cycle game. (And it is really exciting to see it played to full complete high scoring fast cycles by both Alliances at the same time (especially w/ occasional zone defense, when not on the ball right then, added). Not so much, when it instead reverts to just a battle bots type show).