North Star Regional...

[audietron]

Originally Posted by Tanis

The drivers are constantly going on and off the field to retrieve or place their robots, so they are aware that the gates are not locked in place. Perhaps teams just need to be more aware of which pieces of the field are more subject to dislocation.

A team should not have to go out of the way to put a ball into a goal just because a piece of the field is likely to come off. The gates come off often, yes and a driver knows that they should not slam into it but when just turning and grazing it causes it to fall off, There is a problem.

[Bryan Herbst]

Originally Posted by audietron

A team should not have to go out of the way to put a ball into a goal just because a piece of the field is likely to come off. The gates come off often, yes and a driver knows that they should not slam into it but when just turning and grazing it causes it to fall off, There is a problem.

Looking at the video again, it looks like the team caught the gap between the two sheets with their bumper, then drove forward and turned so that their robot was still moving into the gate at an angle. I wouldn't call that just a graze.

The other problem here seems to be that the drivers didn't notice the gate had come off. If they had seen that, they could have gone to the other goal to put the ball in.

I agree that what happened during the match was unfortunate. However, I agree with the ref in deciding that it was not a failure of the field.

[JeremyLansing]

Originally Posted by Tanis

Looking at the video again, it looks like the team caught the gap between the two sheets with their bumper, then drove forward and turned so that their robot was still moving into the gate at an angle. I wouldn't call that just a graze.

The other problem here seems to be that the drivers didn't notice the gate had come off. If they had seen that, they could have gone to the other goal to put the ball in.

I agree that what happened during the match was unfortunate. However, I agree with the ref in deciding that it was not a failure of the field.

I might not call it a graze, but I wouldn't call it a hard hit on the field either.
Part of section 2.1 in the game manual states "The ARENA is designed to withstand rigorous play and frequent shipping" I would not call this rigorous play by any stretch. I have seen far harder hit on the field that did not result in any noticeable effect. The fact that this field element did not stand up to what was in my opinion normal game-play indicates to me that it was a failure of the field due to a broken field component that affected the match outcome. To me, this is exactly the type of thing that T16 is there to prevent. G10 absolutely should not apply here as the blue box underneath clearly states "ROBOTS may push or react against any element of the FIELD." 2175 appeared to be "sidescraping" the field border to get their robot lined up with the low goal, something I have seen happen hundreds of times this year. What I haven't seen happen before is that panel coming off, which should have resulted in a T16 and a replay.

[Aren Siekmeier]

Originally Posted by Tanis

I wouldn't call that just a graze.

cf. G10 and Sections 2.1 and 2.2.1. Certainly an appropriate action and certainly not appropriate for a G10.

Originally Posted by Tanis

The other problem here seems to be that the drivers didn't notice the gate had come off. If they had seen that, they could have gone to the other goal to put the ball in.

We all saw the gate come off, but no one was positive where it had landed on or off the field until we were stuck. I feel we shouldn't be looking out for all possible, invisible obstacles not described in the field spec, rather than focusing on playing the game.

Watch the video again, this time from 1:53. The bot pulls up to the ball, picks it up, and comes to a stop next to the gate. Then, in executing a pretty reasonable turn to face the goal, the corner snags the panel. It appears as if the velcro is not even attached in this case, since it immediately slides directly to the side (I doubt the velcro would shear like that from a bumper corner). It slides a foot or so before hitting the human player barrier and flipping onto the field.

When one robot breaks another, a foul is assessed for the damage. When one robot breaks itself, a foul may be assessed for violating other robot rules or leaving parts on the field that may become a hazard to other robots. When a robot breaks the field, a foul is assessed. But when the field breaks a robot, it's just "unfortunate."

[JeremyLansing]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

<snip>
Regardless, it was the head ref's call and not something worth arguing about after the fact. Per section 5.5.3:
<snip>

Perhaps not worth arguing about, but its worth discussing. I'll admit I do have a certain bias, but I struggle to see how this doesn't qualify as a Arena Fault given that it is broken field element (the shield came off), and it most certainly affected the outcome. If we don't talk about it after the fact how can we learn? The piece of the field border they caught on does not have to hang loose, since the velcro was not enough in this case then stronger measures need to be taken to secure this piece of the field border. I don't expect the head ref to come on Chief Delphi and say he changed his mind, but if there is some way to prevent this in the future, then it is absolutely worth discussing after the fact.

If something like this happened on Einstein I doubt you would say that the head ref's call is final and we shouldn't talk about it.

[Trent B]

Congrats to 2177, 3042, and 4778 for their victory. Eliminations were very intense, well fought by all teams.

[Trent B]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

Yes, lots of robots at all regional have had issues with loose wires due to the physical nature of this game.

That's what I suspected. There was definitely a lot of hard hits in most matches.

[Kingland093]

Originally Posted by Trent B

That's what I suspected. There was definitely a lot of hard hits in most matches.

Interesting. 10k had very little compared to what I've seen in previous weeks

[Bryan Herbst]

Originally Posted by waialua359

Field was stuck at Customs coming from the Waterloo Event last week.

We don't actually know why it was so late, and likely never will. We heard a lot of conflicting information from the shipping company, which makes it unlikely that the cause was simply customs. It is certainly possible though!

Originally Posted by Kingland093

Interesting. 10k had very little compared to what I've seen in previous weeks

10k was pretty comparable to the Duluth regionals and, from what I have heard, North Star. We had mostly the same issues- loose wires, batteries not secured properly, bad ethernet ports on driver's stations.

[FRC3883FRC]

Team 3883 had a great time at the regional. We had a solid alliance going into the elims but the number one seed was just a little better. Thanks to 2491 and 2220 for the great matches.

The day 3 3883 highlight video is done. If you stick around till the end there is some great bonus dancing going on.
3883 Day 3 Highlights

[audietron]

Originally Posted by FRC3883FRC

Team 3883 had a great time at the regional. We had a solid alliance going into the elims but the number one seed was just a little better. Thanks to 2491 and 2220 for the great matches.

The day 3 3883 highlight video is done. If you stick around till the end there is some great bonus dancing going on.
3883 Day 3 Highlights

We thought your robot was one of the best, We were really surprised you didn't get picked earlier. The quarterfinals were some really good matches and i think is what FIRST had in mind when designing the game.

Our Elimination alliance was exactly what we wanted with 2175 being really amazing and 4607 (surprisingly not getting picked earlier) was our number 1 choice for the 2nd pick.

We hoped for a repeat but unfortunately we got beat out in the semifinals due to some extremely tough defense. 4778, 3042, and 2177 all played very well and good luck at worlds.

Rookie all-Star winner 5339 was truly a great team to be around, they show the ambition and values of FIRST incredibly well. We will be seeing some great robots from them in the future.

[Jon Stratis]

Just about everyone I talked to was surprised 4607 didn't get picked earlier. There was a solid chunk of time where some of us watching from behind the scoring table were saying "well, they have to be picked this time!" It was almost comical to watch your team rep when the number 2 seed made their second pick - I honestly thought your guy was going to start jumping around he looked so happy.

This game was certainly designed for the elimination matches - some of the quals were almost painful to watch when robots weren't working or teams weren't communicating well... but in the eliminations the alliances get their act together and play an amazing game - It didn't matter who was on the field, you knew it was going to be exciting!

[Trent B]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

It didn't matter who was on the field, you knew it was going to be exciting!

This is a tremendous understatement. It was incredibly difficult to predict the outcomes of elimination matches. I often thought one team was going to emerge victorious, only to have the other team suddenly surge ahead.

[SoMe_DuDe904]

I just want to congratulate my alma mater 2169 for thier 5th chairmans award in their 8th year as a team. You guys make me proud to be a KING TeC alumnist! This was our goal when we formed this team back in 2007.

21!!!!!
69!!!!!

[fr05ty27355]

Originally Posted by SoMe_DuDe904

I just want to congratulate my alma mater 2169 for thier 5th chairmans award in their 8th year as a team. You guys make me proud to be a KING TeC alumnist! This was our goal when we formed this team back in 2007.

21!!!!!
69!!!!!

I'll second that