Video Stealing

[Michael Hill]

I knew FIRST was all about giving students "real life" engineering situations. It's now evolved to giving students "real life" legal situations

[Duncan Macdonald]

I'm not qualified for the legal discussion but I like the benefits of a stable video archive. Teams don't always last and don't always manage the transition of accounts. (There's an old 610 channel with a video of someone tripping that we can't remove for example)

The only reason we have the 1996 championship is because someone recorded it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8N6lnle1fc Is this ok?

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by Duncan Macdonald

The only reason we have the 1996 championship is because someone recorded it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8N6lnle1fc Is this ok?

This. Oh how I wish WatchFIRSTNow existed 15 years ago & would have copied everything from the Soap108 database. I feel like we lost some great old footage because that original source went away. I know some of it is still floating around (http://firstvideoarchive.com/) but I also know this wasn't everything we had back then either.

It's an interesting time now. Back then I think the WatchFIRSTNow effort would be praised but with the advance of content copyright and online streaming, things have changed quite a bit.

Speaking of FIRST Video Archive, are there ways of linking those old videos to TBA? Or do they need to be uploaded to YouTube for that to occur? Would uploading them to a YouTube account spark the same kind of discussion we're having here?

[George Nishimura]

What is YouTube or Vimeo's policy on accounts that get deleted/banned? As in, if an account was deleted or banned, is there a way for the account holder to access (ie 'take back') the videos they uploaded on to the account?

Preface: This is not an opinion on WFN or their execution/implementation. I've only skimmed over the details of that case, so I'm not willing to provide an opinion on it.

In general, I agree that having one, centralized community-driven storage of videos would be useful. So that videos won't get lost, and are easier to access for people who want to design portals that showcase those videos (similar to TBA). For example, a rather simple implementation would be to have one YouTube channel called 'FIRST videos' that anyone can upload to.

Is there a particular reason why people who filmed/edited videos want to upload them? Do they get money from them? (I'm just trying to see what potential issues might arise from such a centralized solution, not attack anyone).

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by George Nishimura

Is there a particular reason why people who filmed/edited videos want to upload them? Do they get money from them? (I'm just trying to see what potential issues might arise from such a centralized solution, not attack anyone).

I for one love 1676s MARchives(can we please start calling them that?), as they're an angle and quality better than most webcasts in MAR, and easy to watch since I barely have time to watch a full MAR webcast/follow the MAR teams I wanna follow.

[George Nishimura]

Originally Posted by Steven Donow

I for one love 1676s MARchives(can we please start calling them that?), as they're an angle and quality better than most webcasts in MAR, and easy to watch since I barely have time to watch a full MAR webcast/follow the MAR teams I wanna follow.

Maybe I should have rephrased my question. I meant more:

In exchange for accreditation (or similar), would everyone be willing to upload it to a centralized location, instead of (only) their personal YouTube/Vimeo account? Or are there other factors involved?

[Hallry]

I've been keeping a close eye on this thread, but have been trying not to post too much on it.

Originally Posted by George Nishimura

In general, I agree that having one, centralized community-driven storage of videos would be useful. So that videos won't get lost, and are easier to access for people who want to design portals that showcase those videos (similar to TBA). For example, a rather simple implementation would be to have one YouTube channel called 'FIRST videos' that anyone can upload to.

One of the many reasons why TBA is amazing is the ability for uploaders to voluntarily submit their match videos for an event. They can do it both on the site and it's even easier to do so on this Google Doc, all they have to do is provide the link for the playlist and someone else will take care of sorting all of it. These videos are still hosted on the uploader's channel so if a user clicks on one of the embedded videos, it goes straight to the uploader's video page.

EDIT: Also found that there is a Facebook Group for coordinating TBA match footage as well.

Originally Posted by George Nishimura

IIs there a particular reason why people who filmed/edited videos want to upload them? Do they get money from them? (I'm just trying to see what potential issues might arise from such a centralized solution, not attack anyone).

One of the new awards last year was the FRC New Media Award, which "will recognize a team’s creative use of digital media and devices to create and distribute content that is used to promote the team’s profile, achievements, and outreach, along with the FIRST mission." 15% of the grading for this award is Engagement, with questions asked such as "How did you track the results?". If you look at the winning submission last year from Panteras, one of the main ways they did this was providing statistics of views on their YouTube Channel. However, if their footage is stolen from them and posted elsewhere, their recordable reach of their content will decrease. This could hurt a team that's in the running for this award.



And I also just want to put this out there: What if I go download all of WFN's footage and then post it on my own personal account somewhere, and start advertising it like crazy on Chief Delphi as "Robotics Videos Online". That would be perfectly fine under WFN's beliefs, correct? (assuming everything else is disregarded)

That's my $0.02 for now. I'll see if I can dig up any more change in my pockets later.

[George Nishimura]

Originally Posted by Hallry

One of the many reasons why TBA is amazing is the ability for uploaders to voluntarily submit their match videos for an event. They can do it both on the site and it's even easier to do so on this Google Doc, all they have to do is provide the link for the playlist and someone else will take care of sorting all of it. These videos are still hosted on the uploader's channel so if a user clicks on one of the embedded videos, it goes straight to the uploader's video page.

I think the way TBA works is great. The only issue is that there is no assurance that those videos won't disappear if individual user accounts are deleted/banned for some reason (I think there are already a few dead links on TBA).

If the community could store/manage the content, it would help safeguard against that possibility.

Originally Posted by Hallry

One of the new awards last year was the FRC New Media Award, which "will recognize a team’s creative use of digital media and devices to create and distribute content that is used to promote the team’s profile, achievements, and outreach, along with the FIRST mission." 15% of the grading for this award is Engagement, with questions asked such as "How did you track the results?". If you look at the winning submission last year from Panteras, one of the main ways they did this was providing statistics of views on their YouTube Channel. However, if their footage is stolen from them and posted elsewhere, their recordable reach of their content will decrease. This could hurt a team that's in the running for this award.

Access to the analytics for page/load views per video is definitely possible. YouTube already does it (sometimes). Would teams be fine with those statistics, versus the 'channel views' that the Panteras used?

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by George Nishimura

I think the way TBA works is great. The only issue is that there is no assurance that those videos won't disappear if individual user accounts are deleted/banned for some reason (I think there are already a few dead links on TBA).

If the community could store/manage the content, it would help safeguard against that possibility.

I completely agree. What if TBA starts a Dropbox/Box.com account where uploaders can voluntarily submit their match videos (similar to what FIRST did with the Dean's HW Submissions this year), in case they want their footage to be saved if for some reason their account is deleted in the future. If their account is deleted, then TBA would be able to upload the videos on their own (since they got the okay from the uploader) and thus they're saved. You can't force uploaders to preserve their footage if they don't want to, after all, it is their's. But if they want to, they'll have the option.

Originally Posted by George Nishimura

Access to the analytics for page/load views per video is definitely possible. YouTube already does it (sometimes). Would teams be fine with those statistics, versus the 'channel views' that the Panteras used?

It is extremely simple for a team to access their YouTube Channel's analytics page and get all kinds of statistics. But let's say a team has 90 videos that have been taken and uploaded on WFN's account. How would that team access the view count/minute watched data for those videos, and/or include it in the graph such as Panteras has done? This will also take away greatly from the number of page visits their channel in general receives. Why should teams have to compromise for a service that they provide by recording and posting the footage?

[dubiousSwain]

Originally Posted by Duncan Macdonald

I'm not qualified for the legal discussion but I like the benefits of a stable video archive. Teams don't always last and don't always manage the transition of accounts. (There's an old 610 channel with a video of someone tripping that we can't remove for example)

The only reason we have the 1996 championship is because someone recorded it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8N6lnle1fc Is this ok?

Our team has the same problem with maintaining our old accounts. Its was a nightmare for me to find the login for our FTP account to our website, let alone our other accounts.

[pfreivald]

As an author, I see my work pirated online all the time. Even items I have on Amazon for free, even my editing blog (which of course anyone can read)--used without my permission elsewhere.

Even with attribution, taking this work (which is copyrighted by virtue of the fact that I created it under US law) and putting it elsewhere throws off all kinds of metrics from Amazon rankings to blog page views--which hurts my publicity and place in search engine algorithms.

The same is true of a YouTube video; and it doesn't really matter whether or not any harm was intended, or whether or not you believe it's significant, or what-have-you.

A general rule of life is to not use other peoples' work without their permission.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

As an author, I see my work pirated online all the time. Even items I have on Amazon for free, even my editing blog (which of course anyone can read)--used without my permission elsewhere.

Even with attribution, taking this work (which is copyrighted by virtue of the fact that I created it under US law) and putting it elsewhere throws off all kinds of metrics from Amazon rankings to blog page views--which hurts my publicity and place in search engine algorithms.

The same is true of a YouTube video; and it doesn't really matter whether or not any harm was intended, or whether or not you believe it's significant, or what-have-you.

A general rule of life is to not use other peoples' work without their permission.

But it's for educational purposes!!!!!!!1

(cue the heavy dripping sarcasm)

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

But it's for educational purposes!!!!!!!1

(cue the heavy dripping sarcasm)

Fun part: My blog is entirely education in nature. :/

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by cavalier

Sorry to revive this thread however Team 1678 has just realized that our webcast archives were added to WatchFirstNow. The match videos we posted to our YouTube channel from Inland Empire and Sacramento Regionals were reuploaded on the WFN site.

Reese, it's ironic how close our team numbers are. I sent you a PM detailing my process of contacting WatchFIRSTNow.

Originally Posted by dubiousSwain

Our team has the same problem with maintaining our old accounts. Its was a nightmare for me to find the login for our FTP account to our website, let alone our other accounts.

I would suggest creating an online Google Doc with the usernames and passwords for your team's social networking accounts, with viewing/editing access given to trustworthy people. That is how 1676 keeps track of our log-in information for our Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and and Skype accounts. For example, share the document with both mentors and students that are in leadership, and then when the students graduate, they or the mentors can pass on the document to the next batch of student leaders.