Serpentine Draft

[MisterJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Here is the problem with that statistic and the way the ranking is done: a top 3 team at a regional or division may be sitting at 7 or 8. I argue in deep fields like championship divisions you may be better served, if you are a top 3 robot in your division, to pick from 7 or 8. In many cases, you may be considered the favorite even though you are at 7.

#7 was definitely the favorite (end eventual winner) at MAR Champs.

[Lij2015]

At Both competitions we went to this year the number one seed won it, and it can only be because of the lack of scouting, because at both of these events the pick list we had created was correct in the teams that got picked but the order was way wrong leaving some robots that should have gone way earlier to the later picks.
However, I am a HUGE fan of the pick where you want to be thing posted above because it is quite scary when formulating a pick list and you only have 18 or 19 teams on there.

[BethMo]

Pacific Northwest switched to the District model this year, and it seems to me that alliances for the eliminations are the single biggest problem. One of our district events only had 28 teams! In that situation, by the time you get down to the last pick you're lucky if you even get a partner who can drive across the white line for 5 points in autonomous.

[SenorZ]

Maybe I'm missing the point, but why would the #1 seed team want to allow three or four of the top seeded robots get swooped up before they get a pick?

Pro sports teams trade draft positions for players. And unless there are some sort of backroom deals going on I don't see why a top seed would want to chose from a smaller pool of alliance partners.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by SenorZ

Maybe I'm missing the point, but why would the #1 seed team want to allow three or four of the top seeded robots get swooped up before they get a pick?

Pro sports teams trade draft positions for players. And unless there are some sort of backroom deals going on I don't see why a top seed would want to chose from a smaller pool of alliance partners.

You get your 3rd earlier. I'd be a fan of a pick-your-poison draft order.

[connor.worley]

Originally Posted by SenorZ

Maybe I'm missing the point, but why would the #1 seed team want to allow three or four of the top seeded robots get swooped up before they get a pick?

Pro sports teams trade draft positions for players. And unless there are some sort of backroom deals going on I don't see why a top seed would want to chose from a smaller pool of alliance partners.

Maybe the 5th top seeded robot is just as good as the 1st, but the 20th is significantly better than the 24th.

[Jacob Bendicksen]

To clarify, are you saying that because high-ranked alliances have to wait until the very end to choose a third robot, they end up losing because sometimes their pick isn't functional?

I agree that it can be difficult (if not impossible) to win this year with a broken alliance member. However, it's a very game-specific problem: while last year it certainly wasn't fun to have a broken 3rd robot, it wasn't necessarily something that could sink an alliance with two solid robots.

That being said, it's week 6. We only have one week of regionals left before higher-level competition (district and world championships), and at those levels functionality is more or less guaranteed for all robots there. While I'm not stupid enough to suggest that no robot ever breaks in St. Louis, there are enough teams there at a high enough level so that this just won't be a problem.

I hear what you're saying, but at this point in the season I don't think it's possible to make a real difference. It's an interesting concept, though.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by TheCascadeKid

To clarify, are you saying that because high-ranked alliances have to wait until the very end to choose a third robot, they end up losing because sometimes their pick isn't functional?

I agree that it can be difficult (if not impossible) to win this year with a broken alliance member. However, it's a very game-specific problem: while last year it certainly wasn't fun to have a broken 3rd robot, it wasn't necessarily something that could sink an alliance with two solid robots.

That being said, it's week 6. We only have one week of regionals left before higher-level competition (district and world championships), and at those levels functionality is more or less guaranteed for all robots there. While I'm not stupid enough to suggest that no robot ever breaks in St. Louis, there are enough teams there at a high enough level so that this just won't be a problem.

I hear what you're saying, but at this point in the season I don't think it's possible to make a real difference. It's an interesting concept, though.

Note also that the alliances will have 4 robots in St. Louis. I haven't looked at the draft order, but I assume it snakes back so the 1st alliance gets two straight picks.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

Note also that the alliances will have 4 robots in St. Louis. I haven't looked at the draft order, but I assume it snakes back so the 1st alliance gets two straight picks.

This is correct. 1-8, 8-1, 1-8.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by nuggetsyl

So I am in a catch 22 I like and dislike the serpentine draft. This year IMO way to many teams have been killed by the serpentine draft. You just can't over come a broken robot.

I heard a suggestion (2590 drive coach) and I really liked it. It would add a new twist to alliance selections. Allow the 1 seed pick where they want to draft from. Then the 2 seed picks where they want to draft from and so on. It means seeding number 1 or 2 is not a as a severe penalty as it currently is allowing them to build an alliance of working robots.

Teams and the audience have a hard enough time deciphering the current drafting system. I don't think we should make it any more complex, or alliance selection along might run through the awards ceremony.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

Teams and the audience have a hard enough time deciphering the current drafting system. I don't think we should make it any more complex, or alliance selection along might run through the awards ceremony.

To add, in the district model how would teams be assigned picking points in a consistent and fair way, without making it over complicated?

I understand the issues with the serpentine draft, but beyond switching to 1-8 1-8, I don't think there's much that can be done.

Overall the serpentine draft keeps things as fair as we can get them. It's not perfect, but as of right now it seems to be the best solution.

[IbleedPink233]

How have teams been killed by the Serpentine draft? How is 1st pick a severe penalty?
If you are referring to the 1st seed teams that end up with a dead 2nd pick, that is what happens when either the regional is very small or the due diligence of scouting wasn't done.
From my experience, allowing the pick order to be determined by the 1st seed makes no sense at all. First of all, there are a lot of teams that are already overwhelmed by the selection process. It's a continual agony for spectators to keep up with what is going on, let alone for the students on the field under pressure.
Also, why would the 1st seed ever not want to go first? They give away the main advantage of being 1st seed: 1st shot at the best robots. All it does is give the new 1st pick a chance to block any robot that the 1st seed wants.