Time for a Scouting Award--Eagle Scout???

[cadandcookies]

I could see a scouting award.

Like a lot of other aspects of teams, there are those that take their scouting to the "next level" in a variety of ways. I remember a team (I think it was Millerbots) at North Star Regional that had a live display of their scouting data in their pit using Tableau at all times. They may not have won the tournament, but they sure had the best scouting by far. I would have loved to see their innovative methods get recognized officially.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

FIRST offers a number of awards, and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between some of them. Yet there's no recognition of innovative or outstanding scouting approaches.

Originally Posted by Steven Donow

I would love love love this.

Originally Posted by cadandcookies

I could see a scouting award.

OK, so which of you is volunteering to write up the details of how this award is to be judged? We can work out the funding later.

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

So FIRST, what do say??

We are FIRST, you are FIRST. So, what do you say?


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[AndrewPospeshil]

Personally I think an actual award for scouting would be pointless. Like MechEng83 said, judges would have to be experienced and have a lot of prior knowledge. Plus it would be a nightmare to determine what criteria makes for a good scouting team/strategy. Not to mention it would be mostly the same from year to year. Each game, regardless of how complex/simple/etc requires an easy way to input data, a good way to compile it, etc etc. Although scouting is a vital part of any successful team, it shows itself not through its own award but combines with a good robot to yield results.

However I do think FIRST should be more helpful to scouters. Dependent on seating of course, each event may set aside x number of seats per team for scouts. Of course it may not work like this all the time - 503 had seven or eight people involved in scouting at any one time this season, times even forty teams is way too much - but even a section for scouts would be so helpful. Also, I'm not sure that all or even most teams scout, so that would help to reduce the number of people in the scouting section. Regardless, I think many would agree FIRST should make its match data available for download. It would be so much easier for scouts if they were able to compile data that includes most of the things automatically tracked by FIRST (mostly WLT records, and assist points this year) in combination with scouting observations.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by AndrewPospeshil

Personally I think an actual award for scouting would be pointless. Like MechEng83 said, judges would have to be experienced and have a lot of prior knowledge. Plus it would be a nightmare to determine what criteria makes for a good scouting team/strategy. Not to mention it would be mostly the same from year to year. Each game, regardless of how complex/simple/etc requires an easy way to input data, a good way to compile it, etc etc. Although scouting is a vital part of any successful team, it shows itself not through its own award but combines with a good robot to yield results.

I don't think this is much different from the Engineering Excellence, Creativity or Innovation in Control Awards. All of those contribute to team success just as much as scouting (unless you think that scouting is EVEN more important, in which I can use that to lord it over our drive coach!!! ) Should we drop those awards because they lead directly to success on the field? Scouting should be put on par with those other critical elements.

Judges don't need to be experienced in scouting--they need to be experienced in strategic development, statistical analysis, data management, information presentation, and team management. All of these are used by real-world professionals. Remember the success of "Moneyball?" That was about how scouting and strategy made more out of the resources a team had. The public "got it" based on how well the movie did.

[Citrus Dad]

BTW, I think a set of potential sponsors are innovative financial investment firms that hire applied math graduates to develop detailed investment models. A whole new population that FIRST has almost no contact with now.

[Pault]

I like the concept, and I think it could have a lot of great benefits, but I am hesitant to create an award for something so specefic that not all teams do. I would not put a high enough priority on this award to bring in judges spefically devoted to it. In addition, I agree with a lot of the other points which other people in this thread have made about the problems of implementation.

But I could see a more generalized award, I.e. The strategy award. Obviously, scouting would be a huge part of this, but not everything. The way a team approaches match strategy would be taken into account, a good strategy/ versatility in strategy that you built your robot around could be recognized, or it could recognize some of the uncommon things like 1678's efforts to get all their alliance partners to be able to assist. This would make it easier for a regular judge to understand, and could recognize a lot of great things, while still pointing out and celebrating the importance of good scouting.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Pault

I like the concept, and I think it could have a lot of great benefits, but I am hesitant to create an award for something so specefic that not all teams do. I would not put a high enough priority on this award to bring in judges spefically devoted to it. In addition, I agree with a lot of the other points which other people in this thread have made about the problems of implementation.

But I could see a more generalized award, I.e. The strategy award. Obviously, scouting would be a huge part of this, but not everything. The way a team approaches match strategy would be taken into account, a good strategy/ versatility in strategy that you built your robot around could be recognized, or it could recognize some of the uncommon things like 1678's efforts to get all their alliance partners to be able to assist. This would make it easier for a regular judge to understand, and could recognize a lot of great things, while still pointing out and celebrating the importance of good scouting.

A lot of teams don't pursue "team spirit" explicitly either, but there's an award for that. I think the point is to encourage teams to try scouting. It really is part of the game, and it can broaden the appeal to more students who may be STEM oriented but not so interested in mechanical/electrical/programming (e.g., economics, finance and marketing).

I like the idea of broadening it to a "strategy" award. That may be better at encompassing the entire scope of what scouting is intended to produce. I think creating a strategy award could get the judges into the stands to see the range of scouting systems, and those systems might win a Creativity Award.

[Lil' Lavery]

Since it's been brought up a couple times now, here's the actual language for the "Team Spirit Award."

Celebrates extraordinary enthusiasm and spirit through exceptional partnership and teamwork furthering the objectives of FIRST.

It doesn't necessarily mean you're the team that cheers hardest in the stands, even if that team certainly is demonstrating their enthusiasm on the day of the competition.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Pault

I would not put a high enough priority on this award to bring in judges specifically devoted to it.

An additional thought on this--this could be an outreach path to bring in many people, particularly from business, who wouldn't otherwise consider themselves qualified to judge at a FIRST competition. They wouldn't need engineering or related technical expertise. It also could appeal to a whole range of sports fans. Look at the rising popularity of fantasy football and baseball and the March Madness pools. If that's not about scouting and strategy, then nothing is. I'm sure many of those fans would immediately recognize the parallel and be more than happy to assess the relative abilities of the teams. And now they become robotics fans--who wouldn't be captured by the excitement of the matches?

[Aaron]

It would be easy for a scouting award judge to audit the scouting reports/scouting teams organization. This would also help acknowledge the students who opt to organize and coordinate scouting efforts.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

OK, so which of you is volunteering to write up the details of how this award is to be judged? We can work out the funding later.

We are FIRST, you are FIRST. So, what do you say?
.

I will if FIRST decides to create this award.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by cadandcookies

I could see a scouting award.

Like a lot of other aspects of teams, there are those that take their scouting to the "next level" in a variety of ways. I remember a team (I think it was Millerbots) at North Star Regional that had a live display of their scouting data in their pit using Tableau at all times. They may not have won the tournament, but they sure had the best scouting by far. I would have loved to see their innovative methods get recognized officially.

1983 Skunkworks similarly used Tableau and has been pushing innovation in their scouting system. 971 has a rigorous successful system too.