On field Coach - Student or Adult

[aldaeron]

After watching a lot more matches this year than usual I noticed that a lot of teams have an adult coach. I am curious if your team has an adult or student coach and why?

Our team has done it both ways. Typically we have a student coach, but last year the students were having so many "issues" that I was asked to step in and coach. I will note that it is a ton of fun to coach - you get to meet all the drive teams, see all the robots up close and get one of the best seats in the house. With a lot of hard work, the students were much more organized this year and there was no need for me to step in. I was bummed but got over it quickly because I always thought of coaching as a "student job". After seeing so many adult coaches at all the events I thought that maybe I was wrong and we had put our kids at a disadvantage without an adult on the field. I have heard from various students that it is tougher to be a student coach when one of your alliance partners has an adult coach who disagrees with you (particularly when you are telling them not to take an auto ball because the scouting data says they are 0 for 8)

Yes, I realize every team does things differently and there is no "right" answer. I am most interested in why your team does it one way or another.

-matto-

[Link07]

No

[Meredith Novak]

Originally Posted by Link07

No

Please, no. Pile of dead horses.

[BBray_T1296]

Pls no

[EricH]

Relax, fellas. He's asking an honest question, or rather two of 'em.

To cut to the chase, they are:
1) Does your team use a student or adult as the drive coach?
2) What are your reasons for decision #1?

If this thread stays civil, I think we can have some good conversation. If the discussion gets out of hand, I'm sure a mod can be found to cut it off.

That said:

1197 used a combination this year. I wasn't closely involved, but if I recall correctly, during strategy meetings a mentor would be present regardless of who the coach was, in case of overbearing mentors on other teams. (Essentially, as a shield.) I don't recall seeing mentors on the field as a coach, but then again I wasn't paying much attention as I had my attention elsewhere. The reason why? Students run 1197, but they do work closely with the mentors--it's not uncommon to find parts done by mentors, or mentors showing students some new tricks to building a robot, or senior students showing younger students what they've learned. I'm sure if the students wanted an adult coach, one of the mentors would step up.

[aldaeron]

Clarification to original post: I do not have much experience with adult coaching and what its benefits are. I would like to know more from the community. I have read many of the debates on this topic already (even the ones with poorly worded whining about the topic). I did not find good, recent posts that offered good examples of doing coaching one way or another (maybe I used bad search terms).

I am interested in hearing your experience with coaching. I do not know of another way to ask the community for input other than posting, but do not want to create another "how to do FIRST right" type argument. Please PM me if you have some perspective on using a student or adult/mentor coach (especially if you have tried both). I am also interested to hear from students on drive teams. Did an adult coach help or hinder? Did a student coach help or hinder? Again, please PM me as to avoid the beating of any horses, dead or alive.

If you would be so kind as to fill out the poll so there is a more recent reflection of the break down in how teams utilize the coaching position, I am interested to see the results (the last one I saw was from 2008).

Free advice to people who are new to what online forums are: if you don't like a topic or see a repeated topic, don't click the link. I do it all the time on CD and other places. Works great!

Thanks!

I have been a drive coach for my team for the past three years. I am a student, however if I had a mentor who was better suited for the job I would have him/her do it in a heartbeat. There is a maturity and experience level you get from a mentor who has been drive coach for 5+ years that is impossible to come by in a student solely because of the time the mentor has been in the position. Students are cycled out every 4 years on a team - mentors can stay for a long, long time. Some may argue that the role of drive coach should be one experienced by a student, however I see the position as drive coach very much as a teaching and mentoring job to the drivers. The drive coach teaches and works with the drive team on how to maximize learning and understanding in the same way a teacher or mentor does, because this is what often results in success on the field.

[Max Boord]

It is %100 team dependent. I have had to fight the "please dont load an auto ball" battle before and having an adult coach helps hugely. I have also seen students act as some of the best coaches (1876 and). I have also seen a few mentors with incredible coaching and strategy skills (1065 comes to mind).

We have used ex-driving mentors as coaches for years and it seams to work quite well.

[Domtech]

I have been on the Robototes drive team for 5 years, 4 as a student and one as a mentor. I traded around as coach/driver my first year before the team really understood the importance of a good coach. My second year I traded off being driver every other match with another student, and coached several of the matches I wasn't driving. My third year I was the main driver with Evan (the kid with the red Mohawk) as my co-driver. We had random students and mentors trade off being the coach that year.
Last year Evan once again took on the co-driver roll as he was also the team captain. The girl who drove went on to be our team captain this year. I was the coach, and apparently I did well enough that this year the team decided to have me coach again. Evan was picked as driver since he had the highest score (behind me ) in our driving trial. We decided to take a risk and have his girlfriend be the co-driver, and it definitely paid off. Our drive team worked very well this year.

The main thing our team will be looking for in our drive coaches is the drive team experience, but being a mentor definitely helps.

[wesbass23]

While there is nothing wrong with having a student as coach, I personally feel that an adult/mentor coach is better. This of course is completely biased as I am the drive coach for my team.

I think it is good to have a little consistency year to year instead of changing drive coaches every year or so. It helps you form positive relationships with other teams that also have adult coaches. I love going into prematch strategy meetings knowing that I can trust the coaches I will be working with. Plus having an adult on the drive team makes it much easier to vouch for your team's robot and driver capabilities.

Some of the most consistently good teams have adult drive coaches, a number of which I have yet to have the pleasure of working with.
Just of few of the best that I have gotten to work with personally are Glenn from 359, Dan from 469, Scott from 1625, and Kevin from 1675. I am quite positive that teams like 71, 111, 254, 1114, 1718 and more have adult coaches as well with numerous years of experience between them.

Again, nothing wrong with a student coach. I would just rather have a veteran adult one.

[safiq10]

As a backup coach on a student coach team I think that if the students can handle the quick strategy and decision making options that need to be made in a moments notice let them do it. Our past captain this season (now alumni) did a great job at this. On field he was able to keep both teams relaxed and on there toes. Then off field me and him would go to every team and come up with pre-game strategies. So if a student can handle the mental pressure of being coach then let them.

Now if for say we had a adult coach on our alliance or perhaps on our team who really knew what he was doing and knew our competition very well ( Like ohh I don't know Allen Gregory [Thanks for the awesome elim matches in Dallas!]) we wouldn't have a problem with them being our coach.

We have also had our experience with both adult coaches and student coaches and from what I have heard and seen is that adult coaches tend to want to show off their team more. Now this is perfectly alright but sometime you need to focus on the game more than showing off your team.

On a similar but small side note: to all future coaches both students and adults alike. Please don't be rude. It very hard to work effectively with a coach who is being rude and insisting on letting their team do a job. There is difference between being rude and asking for another chance to shoot the ball in the goal

[Thad House]

We use a student drive coach, because we like the experience it gives to the students.

Most mentor drive coaches are great. They have the experience to know how to win, and most of the time I have no problems with mentor drive coaches. However, there are the few that can be very stubborn. The coaches on those teams look at our high number, and start treating us like we are a lesser team.

At worlds both this year and last year, we had robots that could perform and score, but there were teams that would look at our number and tell us because of that we were going to be relegated to doing defense or inbound because they do not believe we can do much, and telling us things like "If we lose, we are going to blame it on you." And that just is not how a team should act, and when they start, we usually have to send a mentor in to help calm the situation.

If a team wants to use a mentor or a student drive coach, its up to the team, but to all the mentor drive coaches, please be nice to the students ones, because they are trying as hard as they can, and putting them down just makes it worse.

[Navid Shafa]

Originally Posted by Thad House

However, there are the few that can be very stubborn. The coaches on those teams look at our high number, and start treating us like we are a lesser team.

Ignore them, play your game and work with them the best you can I suppose. If they bother to look at your team or machine, they would know better.

There is no excuse for anyone, student or mentor alike to treat any other team like this, regardless of their ability. I am quite frankly apalled.

[rcmolloy]

Originally Posted by Thad House

At worlds both this year and last year, we had robots that could perform and score, but there were teams that would look at our number and tell us because of that we were going to be relegated to doing defense or inbound because they do not believe we can do much, and telling us things like "If we lose, we are going to blame it on you."

Well I honestly think that which ever team was associated in saying so needs to have a quick reality check and look at their scouting information or just keep their eyes on the field in general.

Our team certainly enjoyed playing against Shockwave this year. You guys certainly were one of the more competitive teams in Galileo and also up in the PNW.

Also in regards to the topic above, whether it be student or mentor, whatever gets the job done is what is the best choice for a team. This is coming from my mentoring experience. However, as a former driver, I would certainly prefer a mentor only because of the experience they've had on a drive team making mistakes that can be minimized when they are out on the field working with the students.

[Kyle Stewart]

Originally Posted by Thad House

We use a student drive coach, because we like the experience it gives to the students.

Most mentor drive coaches are great. They have the experience to know how to win, and most of the time I have no problems with mentor drive coaches. However, there are the few that can be very stubborn. The coaches on those teams look at our high number, and start treating us like we are a lesser team.

At worlds both this year and last year, we had robots that could perform and score, but there were teams that would look at our number and tell us because of that we were going to be relegated to doing defense or inbound because they do not believe we can do much, and telling us things like "If we lose, we are going to blame it on you." And that just is not how a team should act, and when they start, we usually have to send a mentor in to help calm the situation.

If a team wants to use a mentor or a student drive coach, its up to the team, but to all the mentor drive coaches, please be nice to the students ones, because they are trying as hard as they can, and putting them down just makes it worse.

Great job on the field out there, 4488! I'm sorry to hear that you were not respected by certain teams due solely to that first digit, you guys were a pleasure to watch and clearly had built a robot that exceeded the majority of older teams.

Our team uses an adult coach because of our policy of only having seniors participate in robotics. Personally, I think certain students can and do exceed the abilities of adults in coaching as in any regard. However, to be an effective coach I think a student has to spend a lot of time and energy understanding the game and being able to adapt quickly. It is not something that just any student can handle. Similarly, plenty of mentors make bad coaches if they lack those skills.

Heartily agree that the key thing is not to be a massive jerk.