FRC Blog - 2014 Championship Pros & Cons

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

I'm not sure going around through all of the divisions hunting for all the Hall of Fame teams is something the average Championship attendee is going to do?..

Not sure who noticed but the Hall of Fame teams had gold stars floating above their pits this year. Makes it real easy to find them, and looked kind of cool.

[Lil' Lavery]

I'm pretty sure I remember paper airplanes in the Atlanta days, as well. Arena security was more aggressive about stopping people from throwing them, though.

[Red2486]

The Hall of Fame booths certainly have come far since Champs has been in St. Louis. I remember in 2011 when they were almost hidden away in the area with the FLL pits. There is definitely still room for improvement, but FIRST did a really good job making sure that the Hall of Fame teams get the recognition they deserve this year.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Red2486

The Hall of Fame booths certainly have come far since Champs has been in St. Louis. I remember in 2011 when they were almost hidden away in the area with the FLL pits. There is definitely still room for improvement, but FIRST did a really good job making sure that the Hall of Fame teams get the recognition they deserve this year.

I'd say FIRST is doing a much better job, but it could be better still.

I really like Cory's suggestion of giving HoF teams some extra space right next to their normal 10x10 pit. HoF teams are not exhibitors or vendors, they are competitors. No need to divide their resources among multiple locations, when the folks who would be recognized and inspiring people at a HoF display are the very same ones who are doing that anyway, in the pits.

[Hallry]

Cons

• Einstein feed on NASA TV cut out before the last match – NASA TV broadcasts are automated, and there was no practical way for us to ask for a few more minutes because we were running late, but we’ll see what we can do next year

Not only this, but also webcast quality. All of the webcasts for the PNW events this year were extraordinarily better than the NASA streams at WCMP, and from what I heard, the PNW webcasts were all student-ran. FIRST should take a look at what PNW is doing and make that the standard for their streams, especially those at the prestigious World Championship. PNW camera operators also were familiar with the game and were able to focus in on the actual action, rather than simply zooming in to the part of the field where the most robots were, which is what FIRST told the WCMP operators to do. The WCMP also had a lot of weird camera angles, especially on Einstein. However, all of the divisions need improvement for their respective streams.

For comparison, here is a PNW match, and here is an Einstein match.

It also seems like PNW was able to cut up the match footage into the individual matches and upload them quite quickly, while last year, FIRST simply uploaded blocks of footage from WCMP, a few weeks after the event.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Not only this, but also webcast quality. All of the webcasts for the PNW events this year were extraordinarily better than the NASA streams at WCMP, and from what I heard, the PNW webcasts were all student-ran. FIRST should take a look at what PNW is doing and make that the standard for their streams, especially those at the prestigious World Championship. PNW camera operators also were familiar with the game and were able to focus in on the actual action, rather than simply zooming in to the part of the field where the most robots were, which is what FIRST told the WCMP operators to do. The WCMP also had a lot of weird camera angles, especially on Einstein.

The problem with that is in PNW, all of the A/V is done in house, and ran by volunteers. While I applaud PNW for doing that, and their webcasts (and on site A/V from what I have been told) has been phenomenal, it's impractical for FIRST to do that on a large scale. A/V will have to continue to be contracted for a least the near future, and with that people who aren't as knowledgeable about the game will be working the cameras.

As for the actual quality of the streams, (not the footage being shown on them), FIRST needs to look at what PNW did, as well as some of the other events that had spectacular streams. Since A/V is already producing the content, I see no reason why FIRST can't come up with an easy, quality, standard way of getting that content on to a quality live stream. As for WCMP, NASA should have a much better way of doing this already, it's embarrassing that it can't be figured out.

[Drivencrazy]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Not only this, but also webcast quality. All of the webcasts for the PNW events this year were extraordinarily better than the NASA streams at WCMP, and from what I heard, the PNW webcasts were all student-ran. FIRST should take a look at what PNW is doing and make that the standard for their streams, especially those at the prestigious World Championship. PNW camera operators also were familiar with the game and were able to focus in on the actual action, rather than simply zooming in to the part of the field where the most robots were, which is what FIRST told the WCMP operators to do. The WCMP also had a lot of weird camera angles, especially on Einstein.

For comparison, here is a PNW match, and here is an Einstein match.

I heard several complaints about the quality of the stream from people that weren't at champs. This seems to be working against FIRST's goal of "making it loud." If they are going to direct people who can't attend the event to the webcast, you would hope they would make every effort to have a quality stream. Maybe I have too high of expectations but I would think having 4 fields streamed at a decent (maybe not HD) quality without looping or skipping isn't too much to ask. Hope it's fixed for next year.

[Metonym]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Not only this, but also webcast quality. All of the webcasts for the PNW events this year were extraordinarily better than the NASA streams at WCMP, and from what I heard, the PNW webcasts were all student-ran. FIRST should take a look at what PNW is doing and make that the standard for their streams, especially those at the prestigious World Championship. PNW camera operators also were familiar with the game and were able to focus in on the actual action, rather than simply zooming in to the part of the field where the most robots were, which is what FIRST told the WCMP operators to do. The WCMP also had a lot of weird camera angles, especially on Einstein. However, all of the divisions need improvement for their respective streams.

For comparison, here is a PNW match, and here is an Einstein match.

It also seems like PNW was able to cut up the match footage into the individual matches and upload them quite quickly, while last year, FIRST simply uploaded blocks of footage from WCMP, a few weeks after the event.

Ok, so my initial post sucked because all my formatting didn't transfer from Word on my phone to CD's stupid editor and the content did not fit what I was trying to get across.

Basically, what I wanted to get across was that our system could work for FIRST since our equipment is honestly not too expensive. What we really need to do as a community is to have the other district model areas adopt PNW's style of presentation. This will allow for the A/V volunteers at all the district events to be able to transfer their abilities to WCMP. Which would give us a trained volunteer A/V Crew that has been doing the job for a while. This crew could take over the stream and make it so much better than it currently is.

The thing that bugs me is that we still see complaints from people when we are at World Level competition. I don't ever want to have to see this

Originally Posted by Gregor

Yes, getting every event an HD webcast with cameramen who know where to point is a big task, but Einstein at the very least should have this, if not all the divisions...

Watching from home in 2012 and 2013 was pathetic, to be quite honest. I remember watching one qualification match in 2012 that 67 was in, but I couldn't actually tell which robot they were.

kind of comment about the FIRST live steams in the digital age where I can take awesome video on my stills camera because it has the ability to resolve detail on an 18 MP sensor. Most broadcast cameras are capable of 1/120 @ f/2.8 or under with minimal noise and have lenses and sensors with equal resolution capabilities. We are a group of technologically capable people, but we can't get a good live stream going?

Also the way we got our videos up so fast was that we had a recorder that was separate from the stream running at the start of matches and then stopping at the point where the scores were shown. We then threw these on our closed loop server and got a person on a laptop to upload them to YouTube as we went through our day. It worked really well, but I would like to automate it for next year, because it is honestly just a tedious task that really just sucked.


I'm sorry for my rambling, I'm honestly not that great at making long-ish posts like this.

[Tom Line]

I'm sure I wasn't the only one who noticed - but one team who shall remain nameless chose to dump about 200 loose-leaf sheets off the upper level. Literally just 'threw' them off and let them fall in the stands below. Totally classless and non-GP.

That said, the paper airplanes are a neat idea but poor execution. It's really neat to see the ones that get out in the air currents and go super far. So here is my suggestion. Make it a competition. Each team gets 1. Set up some time for a single team member to release that team's plane - lunch, or whenever. Announce the team number, then let 'er rip, and keep track of which plane went the farthest.

Any other paper airplanes that get thrown result in the individual being asked to leave.

[Robby Unruh]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

I'm sure I wasn't the only one who noticed - but one team who shall remain nameless chose to dump about 200 loose-leaf sheets off the upper level. Literally just 'threw' them off and let them fall in the stands below. Totally classless and non-GP.

There were even teams throwing wadded up paper balls at people. My dad and I got hit by a few, and we were sitting in the nose-bleeds. I can only imagine how much worse it must have been in the lower seating areas where there were more teams.

[Taylor]

For those promoting a paper airplane competition - there already is one. At the Boeing booth.
For all others - my five year old recognized that throwing airplanes during an event is disrespectful and silly. If you struggle with the concept of making your grandma proud, then try my son.

The part that frustrates me the most is of all the things to discuss about the Championship Event, paper airplanes are getting the most airtime. pun intended

[Patrick Flynn]

Originally Posted by Cynette

Can we think outside the box? I enjoy the thrill of seeing the successful paper airplane soar from the heights, down, down, down... (not so much when the smack me in the back of the head on the way down) If the residue is the issue, why don't we all commit to taking a plastic grocery bag in with us, or a trash bag, and spending two minutes at the end of the event to pick up in and around our seats. Seriously, we aren't going anywhere, anyway, because of the crowds. Teams with floor access can gather the few airplanes that make it to that level.

Originally Posted by Libby K

Except it's NOT a tradition. The first time I remember it was in St. Louis, maybe 2011. Three years out of twenty-three seasons of FRC, is not a tradition. The crowd clearly doesn't know when to stop - because they never should have started at all.

If you've been around CD for a while, you already know my feelings on the airplanes. It's disrespectful, and I'm happy that Frank finally spoke out about them. It's time for the airplanes to end.

I couldn't agree with Libby more. They are an embarrassment to our program, and I think that anyone who throws an airplane should be removed from the dome, I mean I dare you to throw something on to the field at any professional sports event* and try to stay to watch the rest. You simply won't be able to you will be dragged out by security.

Now I think what my hit this home for some people is what if you hit the president of Google or Qualcomm and caused them serious harm. Like took their eye out? Sure maybe they should have safety glasses on, but most people in the VIP section don't. How would you feel after that? I would be embarrassed and ashamed.

Now lets say they make the decision to pull their funding from FIRST now how would you feel? These people pay millions of dollars into this program. Don't let your need to throw a paper airplane ruin it. Lets act mature here throwing airplanes is dangerous and unnecessary.

*Throwing hats at a hockey game due to a hat trick does not count here

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Patrick Flynn

I couldn't agree with Libby more. They are an embarrassment to our program, and I think that anyone who throws an airplane should be removed from the dome, I mean I dare you to throw something on to the field at any professional sports event* and try to stay to watch the rest. You simply won't be able to you will be dragged out by security.

You mean like how Red Wings fans throw octopi on the ice? Or how Cubs fans throw back home runs by the other team? Or the countless videos of little kids throwing back foul balls? Or the several junior and AHL teams that sponsor teddy bear toss events? Or the Florida Panthers' rat toss?

Your post is ridiculous fearmongering.

[Michael Hill]

I'd disagree that it's not a tradition. Just because some don't like it doesn't mean it's tradition. I definitely remember them in Atlanta in 2004. I have no idea how much longer they were there before that since that was my first year, but they were definitely there. I'd say after 10 years, it's probably safe to say that it's a tradition.

Edit: and to back up my point, a quote from a 2004 thread:

Originally Posted by Bryan D

Hey, I was wondering if anyone out there had any video footage of the time between I believe the divisional and finals when people were throwing paper airplanes and all sorts of things off of the 2nd floor..

[Mike Marandola]

Like others have said, I think the only problem with the paper airplanes is when they are thrown during matches and when someone is speaking. I know that Will.i.am had to speak over the cheering for a plane atleast once.