FRC Blog - 2014 Championship Pros & Cons

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Mike Marandola

I know that Will.i.am had to speak over the cheering for a plane at least once.

It was so distracting, he forgot the lyrics to his own song.

[MechEng83]

A few things:

First, I'm glad that Frank takes the time to give a post-event analysis. It's a good example for how teams should wrap up their season and look to maintain the good and improve the bad.

Paper Airplanes:
It's fun. Kids are bored. Endless speeches by people in suits is boring. Waiting for long periods of time is boring. To my knowledge, nothing official from FIRST has ever come out about throwing planes until today. The only commentary I ever recall is the Air Force general in 2011 stating he had a job for whoever threw the plane all the way to the stage.
Now that there is something official about stopping the planes, that will reduce the number, but it won't stop it. There have been official rules for a while about saving seats, yet year after year teams do not follow this. Enforcement is really the only way to ensure this stops. FIRST hasn't been good about enforcing off-field rules. It seems they believe FIRST students/adults are better and will self-police and act with GP. This is not the case. We're all people. Some people follow rules, some ignore them.

[Patrick Flynn]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

You mean like how Red Wings fans throw octopi on the ice? Or how Cubs fans throw back home runs by the other team? Or the countless videos of little kids throwing back foul balls? Or the several junior and AHL teams that sponsor teddy bear toss events? Or the Florida Panthers' rat toss?

Your post is ridiculous fearmongering.

Okay your right. I should refine my post. You will be kicked out of any professional event for throwing anything on the ice or field that is not, an official sponsored event. A teddy bear toss, or puck toss really? There's no connection between these and our paper airplanes, those are official team events they clear the ice and say go and everyone throws.

The rat toss or octopi? Those are actually traditions that have been around for longer than FIRST and the venue has official staff to clean up after them and they happen during a set time not disrespectfully during the nation anthem, or Deans speech.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Patrick Flynn

Okay your right. I should refine my post. You will be kicked out of any professional event for throwing anything on the ice or field that is not, an official sponsored event. A teddy bear toss, or puck toss really? There's no connection between these and our paper airplanes, those are official team events they clear the ice and say go and everyone throws.

The rat toss or octopi? Those are actually traditions that have been around for longer than FIRST and the venue has official staff to clean up after them and they happen during a set time not disrespectfully during the nation anthem, or Deans speech.

Throwing foul balls and homeruns back onto the field aren't "official sponsored events," yet they happen. Heck, they can make you internet famous or appear on SportsCenter. Additionally, the "rat toss" is not exactly a time honored tradition, and is certainly not older than FIRST. It happened first during the 1996 play-offs, and then once again in 2012. Nor does either the rat toss or octopi happen at a set time. As for the national athem...

The point here isn't really the finer details of throwing stuff at sports game (other than it apparently isn't consoned aside of these many scenarios ). It's that your post was absurd fearmongering, and you know it. It's one thing to be opposed to throwing paper airplanes. It's another to invent some minutely possible doomsday scenario to justify that belief, and then substantiate it with half truths.

[Jake177]

I think there are two major factors that have contributed to the paper airplane "tradition".

1. In order to avoid getting stuck in the nosebleed seats, teams begin filling the Einstein stands well before the closing ceremonies start.
2. Given no other source of stimulation, most people find making and throwing paper airplanes to be an enjoyable way to pass the time waiting for closing ceremonies to start.

I think the easiest way for FIRST to discourage this practice is to address one or both of these factors.

1. I don't think it is wise or practical to try to keep people out of the Einstein stands until closing ceremonies are ready to start.
2. Give people something else they can pay attention to during this time. - What about a feed of the division elimination matches on the Einstein screen? Once those are over, why not have an Einstein Pregame Show with a recap of the division elimination rounds, and a run-down of the teams in the Champion alliances?

[Michael Hill]

Originally Posted by Jake177

why not have an Einstein Pregame Show with a recap of the division elimination rounds, and a run-down of the teams in the Champion alliances?

Most of the time, division eliminations are still going on. We had already moved over to Einstein (to the nosebleeds) and noticed the Galileo elims were still happening (and I assume others as well). Why not broadcast those matches on the Einstein screen? For most people, nobody knows who they'll be watching on Einstein until the teams get there.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

You mean like how Red Wings fans throw octopi on the ice? Or how Cubs fans throw back home runs by the other team? Or the countless videos of little kids throwing back foul balls? Or the several junior and AHL teams that sponsor teddy bear toss events? Or the Florida Panthers' rat toss?

Your post is ridiculous fearmongering.

Tossing octopi on the ice has been banned. Those octopi are all snuck in under jackets. As a Wings fan it's part of the sport for me, but the fact is that doing so risks being ejected from the game.

The airplanes need to stop.

And as for the team that dumped paper... NO. Just no.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

I'm not sure going around through all of the divisions hunting for all the Hall of Fame teams is something the average Championship attendee is going to do.

Put the HOF teams' pits together? A little inconvenient on the operations side of house for the actual competition, but I think that would be better then having their displays split up throughout the pits.

[Matt_Boehm_329]

As for the paper airplanes I see his concern however, they are almost tradition when waiting for Einstein matches. Last year landing in the pyramid goal received more cheering and applause than many matches as does the first plane to hit the back curtain and any caught or presented triumphantly by field reset or other FIRST members on the floor. While I do recognize the quantity issue the crowd seems to know when to launch and when to stop.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Matt_Boehm_329

As for the paper airplanes I see his concern however, they are almost tradition when waiting for Einstein matches. Last year landing in the pyramid goal received more cheering and applause than many matches as does the first plane to hit the back curtain and any caught or presented triumphantly by field reset or other FIRST members on the floor. While I do recognize the quantity issue the crowd seems to know when to launch and when to stop.

And what about the one that landed behind Dean during ceremonies? I think most people know when to stop but it's pretty clear that there are some that don't.

I got into a conversation about this with other mentors on Saturday night after CMP and no one has a good solution but all of us know it is a problem.

No one wants to see FIRST send out laser armed drones to obliterate paper airplane throwing dissidents (well, maybe I do) but there does need to be a clear stopping point in the proceedings for teams to knock it off.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by Matt_Boehm_329

As for the paper airplanes I see his concern however, they are almost tradition when waiting for Einstein matches. Last year landing in the pyramid goal received more cheering and applause than many matches as does the first plane to hit the back curtain and any caught or presented triumphantly by field reset or other FIRST members on the floor. While I do recognize the quantity issue the crowd seems to know when to launch and when to stop.

Except it's NOT a tradition. The first time I remember it was in St. Louis, maybe 2011. Three years out of twenty-three seasons of FRC, is not a tradition. The crowd clearly doesn't know when to stop - because they never should have started at all.

If you've been around CD for a while, you already know my feelings on the airplanes. It's disrespectful, and I'm happy that Frank finally spoke out about them. It's time for the airplanes to end.

Originally Posted by Cynette

If the residue is the issue, why don't we all commit to taking a plastic grocery bag in with us, or a trash bag, and spending two minutes at the end of the event to pick up in and around our seats. Seriously, we aren't going anywhere, anyway, because of the crowds. Teams with floor access can gather the few airplanes that make it to that level.

I appreciate your optimism, but there are still teams out there who can barely handle Gracious Profesisonalism in the stands, let alone cleaning up after themselves/others. Also, there are no more teams with floor access, except for the FLL Champions, FTC Inspire, and FRC Chairmans award winners for the year. I have photos on my phone of the floor down by Einstein, from BEFORE the rain of paper really began. (I'll see if I can post one here.) Not something that our new Hall of Famers could really do on their own, nor should we ask them to. Frank said stop, so it's time to stop.

Originally Posted by Cynette

And another thing! I disagree with the belief that the Hall of Fame display was adequate to showcase those amazing role model teams! Has anyone started a discussion of recommendations to make that area more respectful for the teams earning that honor and more valuable to the rest of us?

Agreed! I don't think it was big ENOUGH, but it was certainly a nice start to put them in the right place. Hopefully with more breathing room in the pit next year, the HoF can get a large lounge area twice the size (or more) of this year's. They certainly deserve it.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Libby K

Except it's NOT a tradition. The first time I remember it was in St. Louis, maybe 2011. Three years out of twenty-three seasons of FRC, is not a tradition. The crowd clearly doesn't know when to stop - because they never should have started at all.

I've seen references to Paper Airplanes as far back as 2004. However, you are correct that it is much worse in St Louis.

[Chris_Ely]

The paper airplanes was one of my least favorite parts of champs when I went in 2013. I was one of my team's representatives that got to sit down on the floor during Einstein. By the end of the ceremonies, the floor was covered in paper. I left feeling very sorry for the event staff that had to stay and clean up the mess, as well as ashamed that the members of an organization which normally holds itself to such high values would leave the place that hosts their championship so trashed. It is disrespectful to the speakers, Einstein teams, people below you, environment, and clean-up staff. Just because something is "a tradition" does not mean it should continue.
Making it an official event won't solve the fact that it makes a huge mess, waists a lot of paper, and is a danger to the people in the lower seats. I fail to see much engineering going into most of the planes people make. Having yet another contest to see who cleans up them most won't do much. Teams are already in a rush to either get to the finale or their hotels.
I hope that next year FIRST makes it known to the teams that they don't endorse this "tradition", and will enforce some sort of policy to stop it.