The subtle disadvantages of being a FIRST Alumni

[Billfred]

A couple of thoughts from someone ten years removed from his freshman year:

1) Beware boredom early on, since it's possible you'll get a rude awakening. Diversify, but keep it where you can ditch the extra stuff if you have to.
2) You are the composite average of the five people you spend the most time with. If they're motivated and excited, you will be. If they're broke lazy bums, you will be.
3) I'd definitely advise you to go beyond your major. I have a marketing degree, but I took the CAD course out of USC's MechE department anyway and minored in media arts. So ignoring the fact that I'm horribly rusty in both fields, I could CAD the robot and shoot and edit the reveal video. Odd tools like that make you a better prospect down the road.
4) Hang on to the oddball stuff you grab out of boredom. In the summer of 2007, I had a long layover in Washington, DC at Union Station. That day, Chevrolet just happened to have the Volt concept on display there. This was pre-iPhone (for me anyway), pre-free-WiFi-everywhere, and I didn't really have time to go enjoy the city proper...so bored me pulled out my point-and-shoot and gave the car as much of a photo shoot as one can when one's not allowed to touch. Ten months later, as fate would have it, I applied for a job at a GM dealer--and those photos went in the portfolio. Sure enough, got the job.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

I don't entirely disagree with the message, but is this really a constructive way of putting it?

Seriously?

Look through the 3k or so posts I've got on here, there's only a handful of times that appears. Go on, I'll be here when you get done checking. Back? Ok, EVERY time it's to emphasize a point. So, yes, not only did I view it as a CONSTRUCTIVE way of putting it, I viewed it as a point in need of emphasis in that manner.

[Michael Hill]

Also, if you're bored, go to the gym and lift.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Seriously?

Look through the 3k or so posts I've got on here, there's only a handful of times that appears.

What does this have to do with anything, at all? I'm not talking about your previous posts, I'm talking about that post.

So, yes, not only did I view it as a CONSTRUCTIVE way of putting it, I viewed it as a point in need of emphasis in that manner.

I think we have differing views on what constitutes "constructive." I don't imagine many people at all are going to react positively to that, moreover, it comes across as rather unpleasant and juvenile.

[Jared Russell]

A big fish stops growing unless he finds a bigger pond.

[Swan217]

Come back once you've:

Built a college radio station from the ground up
Saved a robotics team from collapsing
Mentored a robotics team that became world champs
DJed multiple semiformals, campus events, and robotics competitions
Established a FRC Kickoff at your college
Built a FRC field for Kickoff, paving the way for them to build a community Robotics Center
Served on an offseason competition planning committee
Done 4 years of co-op including a thesis
Joined Greek Life

I was once a cocky freshman too, and it took the whole 4 years and then some to realize my limitations. If college isn't challenging enough for you, you're doing it wrong. You want a real challenge - do a suicide double-major, like Mechanical / Electric. Or just coast & see how little the "real" world is impressed by your coasting through college.

[MARS_James]

Originally Posted by Swan217

do a suicide double-major, like Mechanical / Electric.

Hey don't knock my double major, it isn't leading me to suicide it is leading me to a life of no one understanding my need for sitting in a dark quiet room for days at a time to let my brain rest.

[faust1706]

I'd like to thank all of you for giving me guidance. I needed it.

Here is where I'm at right now. My advisor told me to go for another major (along with comp sci and physics), something that I know nothing about (I'm thinking ee or comp e. I know the basics but that's it). Or to transfer to somewhere with a more intellectual environment.

I'm rushing sigep. Taking some time out of the lab. I have an interview for an internship with union pacific tomorrow morning so there is that too.

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

A big fish stops growing unless he finds a bigger pond.

That is basically what my advisor told me. I started doing research with the university my senior year of high school. This school doesn't have much to offer me, socially or academically. I'm thinking about transferring to Harvey Mudd next year, even though the atmosphere will kill my cf.

I try to mentor other teams. Last year I helped a grand total of 14 teams with computer vision, and this year I plan to solve the vision challenge over winter break as a for fun thing, and have it tested and good to go for anyone who wants it. I might do it in multiple languages, but I'll probably stick to c++ and python. The kid I left in charge of vision for the team doesn't need my help. I taught him calc 1 during build season just because I knew he could handle it, he was a freshman at the time.

As for student programs, I go to the buddhist temple just about every night. It helps me cope with having CF. We have a lot of student design teams, our school placed second in the mars rover challenge last year I believe.

I have my own projects that I'm working on, but I'm running out of ideas fast. I write the same code in python, c++, and matlab and test to see which one is fastest just out of pure boredom.

I run to fill my afternoons too. I would join the cross country team but cf just recently put me in the hospital for 2 weeks and that can happen at a moments notice, so sports are kind of out of the question. I do intramural soccer here, but it's not as competitive as I like it. I was captain of my soccer team in high school.

Originally Posted by jee7s

Yes, I can understand the boredom. I was there. But, a question to ask yourself: Can you explain how the fact that the divergence of a 4 dimensional anti-symmetric rank 2 tensor equals zero means that there is light? Can you explain why a square pulse in the time domain equals something like sin(w)/w in the frequency domain? Can you explain why a single pendulum is well governed by algebra, but a double pendulum is chaotic? Can you explain why a curve ball curves, in a mathematical sense?

oh boy, I haven't done tensor stuff in awhile. Let me dissect the question as I think about it:

Some more background: (in relativity) the electromagnetic field is described by a 4D antisymmetric tensor.

quoting my physics professor "An anti-symmetric tensor is a tensor in which exchanging two indices negates the tensor"

By divergence (the antisymmetrized derivative) is zero in a vacuum, and obviously is not zero when there is charge or a current.

I do not conceptually understand why it produces a photon, but it does. I haven't thought about it that much. But I'm only in the first physics class.

Speaking about physics, it irritates me that the Nobel prize was given to something so simple. Maybe I just don't appreciate it.

As for the second question, that is a simple Fourier transformation.

Ah, the classic double pendulum question. It is a system of chaos, to give the cop out answer, as you have stated. The system is governed by a system of diff eq. The vision program I wrote my sophomore year of high school solved a system of partial diff eq (camera pose estimation). If you're really interested, i presented this at ISWEEEP, the international science fair: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5wbgtie9vc...ation.ppt?dl=0

Of course my boeing mentor helped me with the math, it was about half and half. Neither of us could have done it without the other.

I have spent a lot of time on the hospital bed due to having cf. I finished the vision program my sophomore year in the hospital at 2am a week before competition. My junior year I missed 2 months of school due to being sick. Senior year was about a month. It has allowed me to develop academically.

Having cf greatly reduces the amount of time I have here, and I want to actually "contribute a verse" and I feel like I'm wasting my time right now.

Edit* forgot about the last question: if I remember right, I believe it is called the magnus effect. It's very similar to that of an air foil, I believe. I do not believe anyone actually has mathematically explained it, I'd be more than happy to see one if one exists though.

[philso]

I would have to agree with Damprobot that you may be experiencing burnout so I would advise you not to work on your current personal projects since they seem to be in the areas that you may be burnt out in. Since it is difficult to really "do nothing", and if you are really ahead of your peers, you may want to consider offering to tutor some your peers. I had one schoolmate who was in the Engineering Physics program (the hardest classes from EE and ME), took graduate level courses and got over 95% in all his courses in all his 4 years. He was also incredibly humble, approachable and more generous with his time helping those of us who struggled than most of the other top students.

If you have a student loan (and even if you don't), you might consider getting a job. It will give you some cash and some real world experience working for and with other people. That would be as valuable as your FIRST experience when you are looking for employment after you graduate.

As techhelpbb suggested, figure out what gives you fulfillment. If you are doing something you find fulfilling, you can do it with passion. People who work with passion are much more likely to do better work, do something great and go further in life than those who just plod along.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by faust1706

I'd like to thank all of you for giving me guidance. I needed it.

Here is where I'm at right now. My advisor told me to go for another major (along with comp sci and physics), something that I know nothing about (I'm thinking ee or comp e. I know the basics but that's it). Or to transfer to somewhere with a more intellectual environment.

I'm rushing sigep. Taking some time out of the lab. I have an interview for an internship with union pacific tomorrow morning so there is that too.



That is basically what my advisor told me. I started doing research with the university my senior year of high school. This school doesn't have much to offer me, socially or academically. I'm thinking about transferring to Harvey Mudd next year, even though the atmosphere will kill my cf.

I try to mentor other teams. Last year I helped a grand total of 14 teams with computer vision, and this year I plan to solve the vision challenge over winter break as a for fun thing, and have it tested and good to go for anyone who wants it. I might do it in multiple languages, but I'll probably stick to c++ and python. The kid I left in charge of vision for the team doesn't need my help. I taught him calc 1 during build season just because I knew he could handle it, he was a freshman at the time.

As for student programs, I go to the buddhist temple just about every night. It helps me cope with having CF. We have a lot of student design teams, our school placed second in the mars rover challenge last year I believe.

I have my own projects that I'm working on, but I'm running out of ideas fast. I write the same code in python, c++, and matlab and test to see which one is fastest just out of pure boredom.

I run to fill my afternoons too. I would join the cross country team but cf just recently put me in the hospital for 2 weeks and that can happen at a moments notice, so sports are kind of out of the question. I do intramural soccer here, but it's not as competitive as I like it. I was captain of my soccer team in high school.



oh boy, I haven't done tensor stuff in awhile. Let me dissect the question as I think about it:

Some more background: (in relativity) the electromagnetic field is described by a 4D antisymmetric tensor.

quoting my physics professor "An anti-symmetric tensor is a tensor in which exchanging two indices negates the tensor"

By divergence (the antisymmetrized derivative) is zero in a vacuum, and obviously is not zero when there is charge or a current.

I do not conceptually understand why it produces a photon, but it does. I haven't thought about it that much. But I'm only in the first physics class.

Speaking about physics, it irritates me that the Nobel prize was given to something so simple. Maybe I just don't appreciate it.

As for the second question, that is a simple Fourier transformation.

Ah, the classic double pendulum question. It is a system of chaos, to give the cop out answer, as you have stated. The system is governed by a system of diff eq. The vision program I wrote my sophomore year of high school solved a system of partial diff eq (camera pose estimation). If you're really interested, i presented this at ISWEEEP, the international science fair: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5wbgtie9vc...ation.ppt?dl=0

Of course my boeing mentor helped me with the math, it was about half and half. Neither of us could have done it without the other.

I have spent a lot of time on the hospital bed due to having cf. I finished the vision program my sophomore year in the hospital at 2am a week before competition. My junior year I missed 2 months of school due to being sick. Senior year was about a month. It has allowed me to develop academically.

Having cf greatly reduces the amount of time I have here, and I want to actually "contribute a verse" and I feel like I'm wasting my time right now.

Edit* forgot about the last question: if I remember right, I believe it is called the magnus effect. It's very similar to that of an air foil, I believe. I do not believe anyone actually has mathematically explained it, I'd be more than happy to see one if one exists though.

My shenanigans meter is going off, I'm not calling you a liar at all let us be clear. The tone, appeal, wording, just everything seems to have changed through a post...
Enlighten me Faust...
Can you tell me how to get, how to get to Sesame Street?

Anyway cynical side being put out there it sounds like you have been active at taking steps to not just uh state your situation but to change it. Good on ya!

[Christopher149]

Originally Posted by Swan217

You want a real challenge - do a suicide double-major, like Mechanical / Electric.

I'm not sure if the CS will be a major, but it's at least a Mechanical with Comp Sci minor for me. It's actually a good combo, because some ME classes use LabVIEW, the ME math requirements (up through stats, diff eq, and linear algebra) are good for CS, and I have an internship writing mechanical engineering software. Non-overlapping majors are not necessarily suicide.

[cadandcookies]

If you aren't being challenged, push yourself. If you're bored, find something new to do. If your classes aren't challenging enough, take more. Take them in subjects that you aren't an expert in (ie, not computer vision in your case). If your extracurriculars aren't interesting enough, find new ones. Push yourself to explore and discover. Find a problem-- any problem-- try to solve it. Create something. Design a robot in CAD. Push yourself to where you think your limit is, and then just a bit more. Jump into the deep end of the pool. Get in over your head on a subject you don't know much about.

When I was a freshman in high school, I was taking my calculus course at the University of Minnesota (where I am now studying), and one of my professors told all of us (a class of 7th, 8th, and 9th grade students) that no matter how smart we thought we were now, we would eventually hit a wall. Even if we could cruise through this program (which went from Calculus 1 through Multivariable, plus a potential for research/advanced classes by the end), if we were taking advantage of our talents to the fullest, we would eventually take a class, or work on a project, which would pose us a real challenge. The longer you spend cruising through life, the more difficult it is when you hit that challenge. That is when you learn to actually work. He also told us that working through that challenge, and the challenges that would come after it, were the meat of life.

I didn't (and don't) totally agree with him on everything, but that, out of all the things I learned about in the program, was one of the biggest takeaways. Personally, it took me from being a bored straight-A student to an A- to B+ student who was much more interested in life and what I was learning. I could have pretty easily slunk through high school with a 4.0 and a pat on the back (and believe me, I was on that path), but instead I took advantage of what I could learn.

Yes, I understand there's a difference in scale here, but I think the general principle of what my prof told us that day still holds true: find your walls and get through them. Break them or climb them or tunnel under them. Figure out exactly what you are made of and then try to make yourself something more. Boredom isn't a fate I would with on anyone, especially someone with the raw talent you appear to possess.

“A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for.”
― William G.T. Shedd

[techhelpbb]

There is a lot of valuable advice in this topic already.

Let me give you a different bit of advice that has served me well.
The general vector of most of a large number of these posts is do more...do...do...do...

The error underlying this situation is a misunderstanding of the value of your work and your labor. Mostly likely a vast misunderstanding of the value of sleep as well (trust me I've worked past the point of my own safety a few times sleep does matter and often when you least expect it).

Ask yourself something: what were *you* getting out of FIRST that you are not getting out of college that made that hard work worth it?

The value of education is not that number of classes the school could force you to take to justify their bottom line once you declare a major.

As others have said - colleges will often go real easy on you the first year or so then drive you into the ground. This is not just about getting the easy stuff out of the way - it's a great business model to get you as financially invested as they can get you before they have to pay up on their end. Why do you think schools can't often agree on what is transferable between them?

My advice to you is simply this. Use this time while the situation you are in has distracted it's insanity away from you to find out what the real value of your time is. Personally I have told my students this before. I may mentor you in CNC programming but why would I suggest this is the best use of your time when I make significantly more professionally and most often do not use CNC machines to do it? I mentor it because I hope it enables my students to learn, contribute and participate. It empowers them. I hope it opens their heads to new ideas and so when they find themselves in those dark moments when they feel lost maybe they have some ideas on how to fulfill themselves.

I am a guy with an associate's degree from a community college. My Father was a guy with no college degree. Our collective work has built key parts of this World's infrastructure for more than 50 years and is undeniable.

FIRST is an opportunity, college is an opportunity and even war sometimes is an opportunity. I hope you can understand the difference between going through the motions and doing something you really value even if the rest of the World will spend it's time telling you about your faults and limits and doing things that may not be in anyone's best interest.

Engineering is not the only true path and trying to make one size fits all is bound to create negative consequences. The value of FIRST is that it encourages people to see what engineering can be to you before you get pulled back into a college system that makes the most money when you can not complete the programs but you convince yourself that you must have a degree. So you spend...spend...spend on student loans that might even survive you if you die young or in some tragic accident.

Work smarter - not just hard.
Cause slaves work plenty hard and they are still slaves.
So much blood has been spilled so you can have this opportunity to fulfill yourself, use it wisely.

"Then the joy of achievement when one can successfully take a few steps without falling. The appreciation of people around is a key component of achieving personal fulfilment. It is invariably followed by a sense of habituality (i.e. being able to perform any act e.g. walking, habitually). Then boredom. Followed by a yearning for the next horizon, whatever it may be for an individual."

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

I don't entirely disagree with the message, but is this really a constructive way of putting it?

[Kevin Sheridan]

Originally Posted by faust1706

Bored out of my mind academically at a supposedly amazing school. I am too far ahead of my peers.

Pick up a second major if you are that far ahead. My roommate in college was "suffering" from this exact scenario and was set to graduate from one of the top physics programs in the world by his second year. His solution was to pick up computer engineering as a second degree and he finished that in his fourth year. He liked it so much he stopped pursuing his (original) dream of getting a PHD in physics and became a successful software engineer.