[FRC Blog] Frank Answers Fridays: December 5, 2014

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

As a Lead Que I am glad for the change. I HATE Thursdays at FIRST events with a passion. The mornings are a complete waste of time for volunteers as we're just sitting around waiting for teams to show up and I never understood why they close the field down at 4:30 when the pits are open til 8. I say let them play until it's time to go home.
I would also like to see them do away with the schedule. It's stupid and adds stress to the volunteers who often have to scramble to put teams on and off the field because if it (if a scheduled team comes stumbling up late but has already been replaced by a fill in we have to kick the fill in out to put the latecomer in thus delaying the match further). It's much easier to roll teams to the back of the line and build matches (ala IRI) than it is to work around a useless schedule.

I would support that... IF there were some rules in place to encourage inspections - only teams that have passed inspection can go out, or you can only go out once an hour until you pass, something like that... we don't want to see teams spend 6 hours cycling through the line over and over again, then scrambling at the very end of the day to get inspected.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I would support that... IF there were some rules in place to encourage inspections - only teams that have passed inspection can go out, or you can only go out once an hour until you pass, something like that... we don't want to see teams spend 6 hours cycling through the line over and over again, then scrambling at the very end of the day to get inspected.

To be honest, I don't think teams should be allowed to practice until they either pass inspection or the LRI says they can (special cases late in the day, minor changes that aren't critical but may take time). Every year we talk about potentially dangerous robots on the practice field and with no official rules about "safety inspections" there isn't much that can be done. I don't remember the last time we went the practice field with out being inspected but I know it's not very often.

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

To be honest, I don't think teams should be allowed to practice until they either pass inspection or the LRI says they can (special cases late in the day, minor changes that aren't critical but may take time). Every year we talk about potentially dangerous robots on the practice field and with no official rules about "safety inspections" there isn't much that can be done. I don't remember the last time we went the practice field with out being inspected but I know it's not very often.

I would agree with this. I've always been somewhat baffled by how FIRST chooses what elements of the inspection process truly get emphasized with things like this, as well as elimination re-inspections. Robots make it out there with potentially dangerous electrical or pneumatic flaws, but god forbid your bumpers sag too low...

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Joe G.

...but god forbid your bumpers sag too low...

This. I don't think we've ever made it through an elimination inspection without having to adjust our bumpers because its just a hair out of the bumper zone in one spot.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

This. I don't think we've ever made it through an elimination inspection without having to adjust our bumpers because its just a hair out of the bumper zone in one spot.

I've been on 1592 since 2007, I dont think we've ever been told that our bumpers were too low or sagging or outside the bumper zone. I always thought it was one of the few rules that hardly got called on.

[Tem1514 Mentor]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

To be honest, I don't think teams should be allowed to practice until they either pass inspection or the LRI says they can (special cases late in the day, minor changes that aren't critical but may take time). Every year we talk about potentially dangerous robots on the practice field and with no official rules about "safety inspections" there isn't much that can be done. I don't remember the last time we went the practice field with out being inspected but I know it's not very often.

How many times have we seen a robot just not work during quals because they never made it to the field to make sure the coms to the FMS are working?
So for me, everyone should or must go to the field at least once on Thursday, inspected or not.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Tem1514 Mentor

How many times have we seen a robot just not work during quals because they never made it to the field to make sure the coms to the FMS are working?
So for me, everyone should or must go to the field at least once on Thursday, inspected or not.

When the practice matches are done we have a list of every team that has not made it to the field and encourage them to come out and link up the the field.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

When the practice matches are done we have a list of every team that has not made it to the field and encourage them to come out and link up the the field.

Same here. Even if it isn't for a real match, the FTA, queuers, and LRI work together to make sure everyone has connected, even if nothing else is working on the robot. That doesn't mean teams won't screw something up before quals!

[Qbot2640]

This is a phenomenal change - the only downside for us is that it will shorten the awesome Thursday night team dinner we always have at the NC Regional in a top secret location we found in Durham.

To the concerns above about uninspected robots cycling for hours, the events I have participated in (either with my team or as a volunteer) have only allowed uninspected teams to play in their "scheduled" practice matches...you must pass inspection to fill in empty spots.

NOW, if FIRST would allow teams to set up their pits Wednesday night (still no robot unbagging, of course) so they could be ready first thing Thursday morning to get started working or get inspected - that would make practice day run a great deal better.

[MrRoboSteve]

When working in the CSA role, I coordinate with inspectors (Hi Jon!) and start visiting the list of "haven't been on the field yet" teams early in the afternoon on practice day. In particular, I focus on rookies and teams that appear to be struggling, to ensure that they get out early and get connected. I also go look at the status board at the inspection table, and examine any partially completed inspection forms to identify teams with control system issues. I'll also get messages from the field pointing out teams that are having connectivity issues during practice.

Last year, at the two events I worked, we had a small handful of teams that first connected after the close of practice. Everyone was connected by the end of the evening of practice.

We had comments on our bumpers last year, so I know it happens.

Based on Frank's blog post, it's likely that the overall practice day schedule (pit open to close) will be roughly the same as last year. I hope that connectivity tests are allowed during the time prior to practice field open.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Same here. Even if it isn't for a real match, the FTA, queuers, and LRI work together to make sure everyone has connected, even if nothing else is working on the robot. That doesn't mean teams won't screw something up before quals!

Many teams don't know what they're doing (the inspectors need something to do all Friday) but often blame the field (and the mostly experienced volunteers) for their robot isn't working even if it's mostly made of wood and the bumpers are hanging by the threads of fabric that barely passed inspection but by God we know what we're doing!

[sanddrag]

Chris Picone, you are my hero!

I submitted the following way back on August 7th but it was never responded to until now. You put the same idea in more detailed words. Thank you my friend.

I'm glad they've acted on my second paragraph. This is a positive change that is years overdue. Now, howabout the load-in issue? What do you say FIRST?

Originally Posted by me

Hello Frank,

My question is about three related issues at regional events: load-in, pit setup, and practice time. Currently, teams are permitted to load in equipment on the evening prior to practice day, but it traditionally has been a "drop it and leave" type of affair. The trouble is, come the morning of practice day, teams are then un-loading everything they placed within their pit boundaries the previous evening, into the aisles, in order set up their pit areas. It creates a crowded unsafe situation, and a lot of havoc, especially when teams are rushing to get inspected and make it onto the practice field. Why not let teams set up their pit areas on the evening of load-in?

And as the second part of my question, why is the official field closed and off limits on the evening of practice day, when teams need it the most, and the pit area is open until 8PM? Would it not make for better qualifying matches if every team was afforded ample practice or testing time (until say 7PM) on the real competition field? Current practice fields do not nearly meet the demand at most venues after scheduled official practice ends.

Thank you.