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Aggravating things about the competition itself..
Posted by Gui Cavalcanti at 03/17/2001 1:28 PM EST
Student on team #422, Mech Tech, from Governor's School (GSGIS) and Verizon. There are some aspects of this game we're all enthralled with that I really don't like, and I have one major example for you. Team 615 came to the VCU regionals without a robot, essentially. They had a couple of pieces of plywood, a cage for their drive train, and two globe motors. No program, no electrical system at all, barely even a mechanical frame. Nearly half our team ventured over to their pits (including me, for most of the competition) and helped them build their robot from the ground up. We wired, we soldered, we drilled, we cut, virtually did everything except for machine shop work and what we were teaching them. Sorry if I start to sound cynical, but I'm getting to the bad part. During the practice rounds, their robot was on globe motors for a drive train with a 1:3 gear ratio (shudder). They moved at about 2 inches per second, got shoved up and over the bridge, and got stuck on the TAPE that marked the ENDZONE... eventually needing another robot to push them over. After that, everything started to break. We got them wired up, swapped out the globe motors with drill motors, and got their robot fired up with them. Then.. it constantly broke. They did not move more than two feet per match, and they used up all their stretcher coupons. But guess what? They placed 16th!!!! I saw so many other teams with so many more qualified robots! They were constantly on ridiculously high-scoring (relative to the VCU regional) alliances, scoring 150, 108, 116, and 126 in 4 separate matches. I saw so many other teams making so much more effort.. I mean, I understand the fact that they came with nothing, but still.. not even an electrical system at all. It just bothers me that such a team could make 16th out of 67 if they put no effort into their robot in 6 weeks! You know what the kicker was? They got the Sportsmanship Award, too. Nobody paid attention to what the 422s did, but that didn't bother us too much. I'll go back to programming now.. -Gui Team 422 (Mech Tech) Richmond, Virginia |
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Because they didn't have a robot- doesn't mean no effort!
Posted by colleen - T190 at 03/17/2001 3:43 PM EST
Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Massachusetts Academy of Math and Science and WPI. In Reply to: Aggravating things about the competition itself.. Posted by Gui Cavalcanti on 03/17/2001 1:28 PM EST: i've seen you're problem.. i've been there... from BOTH sides... and just because a team shows up with what you don't consider a 'qualified' robot does NOT mean they didn't put in effort during the 6 weeks or at the competition... The point of FIRST: gracious professional.. teams like them are around, if nothing else, to make sure your GP is in check.. For 4 years of high school I was on a veteran team that could pretty much buy or make anything needed.. had all the engineering support.. machinery.. you name it.. We never came out of the 6 weeks with less than a 'qualified' robot.. My freshman year in high school, i went to BostonUniversity and joined up with a 2-yr team.. with NO machine shop, NO sponsor, and very little support.. We lacked material things, but had the enthusiam and EFFORT to make it happen.. I worked harder and put in more effort in those 6 weeks than I think I ever did.. And into the crate the robot went, it barely drove, it didn't pick up balls.. we hadn't even picked drivers because it had never actually moved under it's own power.. in NJ, we were dead last seed.. we got ourselves driving (Slooooowly).. but nonetheless moving.. and hey, one match we kept the #1 from scoring any points.. won best defensive round.. with not a 'qualified' robot.. Now I'm on 190... another 10 year team (similar to my first team).. with machines, hand tools, materials and support.. i'm back in those original shoes but can appreciate at least a little more that just because someone's robot doesn't work, is not a judgement on their effort put in but more likely the resources they have available. The team is rookie.. and you should be proud of the fact that you were able to help them out so much and maybe give them a taste about what FIRST is about.. helping each other out.. giving each other that little push when we need it.. it's always been the motive of FIRST in a lot of ways, this year it is the entire basis of the game.. So instead of worrying that you didn't get enough recognition for the help you gave.. recognize your effort as exemplory (sp?) of the goals of FIRST.. and if you question their receiving the sportsmanship award.. consider asking them what they have done as a team.. maybe there's more to their team than just a robot.. I know when the judges came up to me (the alliance coach) and asked about teams that had been 'sportsmanlike' and teams that had shown true spirit on stage, etc.. i didn't suggest teams based on their robot abilities but rather how they worked on stage and the spirit they showed.. In Long Island, there were a couple teams that weren't really working well.. without hesitation many members of our teams helped them out to make them better.. we didn't do it to win awards or to look good.. we did it because we are a 10-year team and they are rookies.. we have an advantage it only pays to share.. and because you never know when someone is going to be your partner.. so if nothing else, you want to know that you helped them be able to get to the point where they can play.. In almost every match in longisland (9 of 11) we pushed a robot over the ramp.. we didn't complain either.. because those 10 points were valuable.. and we need those guys to be there.. at points, teams we pushed over the ramp were higher than us.. but our efforts didn't go unnoticed either.. and it all works out in the end.. that's simply the dynamic of the game.. Effort and ability are not synonomous (sp?)... and often times the effort counts for a bit more.. maybe that team had a little more of it than you originally though |
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Re: Because they didn't have a robot- doesn't mean no effort!
Posted by Gui Cavalcanti at 03/17/2001 4:44 PM EST
Student on team #422, Mech Tech, from Governor's School (GSGIS) and Verizon. In Reply to: Because they didn't have a robot- doesn't mean no effort! Posted by colleen - T190 on 03/17/2001 3:43 PM EST: I realized all your comments were right, Colleen, but I posted that because I was a bit miffed. I understand what you're saying, and now that I realize it, they did deserve the Sportsmanship award. At the time, all our team could think about when our robot was fixed and ready to go was getting the other robot up and running. I actually got in hot water with my team's captain when I was called back from their pit, after working on some code (Note to all programmers: You know the feeling when you're on the last lines of code and someone calls you away, right?) for their team. We didn't want the Sportsmanship award at all, and it definitely was not our motivation. There are two sides to my next argument, which is all that I'm really miffed at; their placement in the ranks. I saw teams with so much more energy, putting so much work into their robot, putting so much more energy into their design (as a comparison, only half of 615's team was ever in their pits at any time, even during the uncrating. i never even saw them in the stands). It just bothered me that the game involves pure luck (sometimes) and nothing else when it comes to final rankings. -Gui 422 - Mech Tech |
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#4
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Re: Because they didn't have a robot- doesn't mean no effort!
Posted by Brian Cholerton at 03/18/2001 12:00 AM EST
Engineer on team #311, Red Jammers, from East Islip High School and KeySpan Energy, Multiline Corp., Computer Assoc.. In Reply to: Because they didn't have a robot- doesn't mean no effort! Posted by colleen - T190 on 03/17/2001 3:43 PM EST: Nicely Said!! |
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#5
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Re: Because they didn't have a robot- doesn't mean no effort!
Posted by EddieMcD at 03/18/2001 12:40 AM EST
Student on team #121, Islanders, from Middletown High School and Naval Undersea Warfare Center. In Reply to: Because they didn't have a robot- doesn't mean no effort! Posted by colleen - T190 on 03/17/2001 3:43 PM EST: I remember that match; it was against Chiel Delphi. It was us at about 25th and you at 40 against #s 1 & 2. That was good. -Ed "Who says low ranks mean anything?" McDonnell |
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#6
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Re: Aggravating things about the competition itself..
Posted by Sean S. at 03/17/2001 4:25 PM EST
Student on team #11, M.O.R.T. (Mount Olive Robotics Team), from Mount Olive H. S. and BASF. In Reply to: Aggravating things about the competition itself.. Posted by Gui Cavalcanti on 03/17/2001 1:28 PM EST: Dear Gui, I don't agree with your point of view. Team #11 has been involved with FIRST for 5 years. Our first year that we entered in compition we had a robot with a drive train after 5 and 1/2 weeks. It doesn't mean that they didn't try hard, it just means they needed some guidance from a more experianced team. That team will become more organized over the next few years, and I have no doubt that they thank you for your help. From, Sean (Team 11, M.O.R.T.) |
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#7
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Gracious Professionalism at work
Posted by ChrisH at 03/21/2001 12:22 PM EST
Engineer on team #330, Beach 'Bots, from Hope Chapel Academy and NASA JPL, J & F Machine, Raytheon, et al. In Reply to: Aggravating things about the competition itself.. Posted by Gui Cavalcanti on 03/17/2001 1:28 PM EST: After the LA regional I was talking to Dave Lavery from NASA. He told me about the team you were mentioning and some of the difficulties they had overcome. At least I assume it's the same team because he didn't give names or numbers. This team is from inner-city Washington DC. A location not exactly overflowing with engineers, or machine shops for that matter. They built their robot with hand tools borrowed from a teacher. They probably didn't use the drill motors for the drive because they needed the drill motors for a more important purpose, building the robot. Their program was written the friday before shipping, they had to call other teams for help because nobody on the team knew how to program. Then after they finally got it crated and shipped, they arrived in Richmond to find that the crate had been turned over and the robot destroyed. That's why all they had was a piece of plywood with motors on it. Mr Lavery then went on to say how proud he was of the other teams. How they banded together to help them get SOMETHING up and running. FIRST and NASA Langley have been trying for years to get a team started in that area. You who helped have probably ensured that there will BE a next year for that team. And as we all know, where there is one team others are soon to follow. While your team and others may not have done as well in the competition as they might have due to the distraction of such a needy team, I think you went far to achieve the goals of FIRST. ( I seem to remember a thread last week about "what went wrong at Langley?" ) Looking long term, your help for a weekend may do more to change their neighborhood for the better than millions of dollars of "social programs". If ONE of those kids, one of the ones who wasn't in their pit, looks at you and says to himself (or herself for that matter I was speaking generically), "That kid isn't any smarter than me, they just have a little more experience, I could do that if I wanted" Then you have just changed a life for the better. I think that's something to feel good about. And on the matter of awards you might want to check out the Gospel of Matthew chapter 6 verses 1 through 4 and think about who you would rather be rewarded by. Just my humble opinion, Christopher H Husmann, PE Team 330 the Beach'Bots |
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